Glycerine-based cannabis tincture?

[dragonrider]

It seems that a lot of the techniques developed by Master Wu for Green Dragon should be applicable to this. For example, Decarboxylation could be used to convert the THCA to THC.

I agree. I think most of Master Wu's techniques for making Green Dragon could be applied to this glycerine tincture.

What I don't understand about the above-recipe is the very long (36 Hour) heating time and requirement for a thread-lock beaker or autoclave. First, GD only has to boil for about 20-30 minutes to create a potent mix. My simple understanding of the process is heat applied to herb breaks down cell walls to release more THC to bind with the Alcohol or Fat. Therefore, if the temperature is not heated anywhere close to the boiling point of Glycerine - why must an airtight container be used? Is there some reaction occurring between the Glycerine and air that I don't understand at 311F? Since Glycerine does not boil until 554F, it should be fine without being airtight.

I went to another forum that had a long discussion of this recipe, and it seemed like they eventually decided that the 36-hour process with the thread-lock screw-seal boiling beaker was not valid. First, no one could actually find a piece of equipment called a thread-lock screw-seal boiling beaker. Beyond that, people had the same ideas you had, that the temperature was too high for too long. I think the idea behind the process was that the higher temperatures would cause a more complete isomerization step, and the airtight vessel was to prevent any of the desireable compounds from evaporating or oxidizing --- not that the glycerine would eveprate or react, but the THC would evaporate or react. Or, possibly the higher temperature had to do with the fact that THC is soluble in glycerine, but not as soluble as in alcohol or fat, so it takes longer --- maybe the temperature and time are to speed up that process, but 36 hours at over 300F seems like more than required for the extraction. Anyway, no one at the other forum was ever able to validate this longer high-temperature process.

Even if it could not be validated, it seems like there might be something to the idea of using slightly higher tempearatures in a vessel that could contain the preasure and keep out the oxygen. With the regular green dragon recipe, the temperature cannot exceed the boiling point of alcohol, around 170F. If all the alcohol boils away, then it does not exceed the boiling point of water, 212F. If you boil out all the water and don't use the water bath, then you could get higher temps, but above a certain point, some of the desirable compounds begin to evaporate. Maybe there are isomerization reactions that can occur at temperatures that are higher than these temperatures? I don't know if that is true or not.

If higher temperatures do result in some different reactions occuring, then one idea might be to heat the glycerine/weed mixture in an oven, but keep it below the vaporizing temperature of the desireable weed compounds (whatever that might be? 250? 300?) In this case I would just forget about the thread-lock screw-seal boiling beaker and use some other kind of vessel that could be covered to prevent too much oxygen circulation, but would not really seal to hold in pressure. Covering the vessel might prevent some oxidizing that might occur, and as long as the weed were covered with glycerine, I think that would help to preven too much oxygen exposure as well. Again, I'm not knowledgable enough in chemistry to know if this would produce a desireable isomerization reaction, but it would take advantage of the fact that glycerine can go to higher temperatures without boiling than alcohol or water can. Like you mentioned, it can go to over 500F.

Does anyone know if there is anything to this idea?

[dragonrider]

After I finished the last post, I thought more about what I would try when I get a chance to make the glycerine tincture. It will be awhile before I can try it, but here is my idea if anyone wants to try it or if anyone else has comments. Actually, comments and other ideas would be great before anyone tries this.

1. Place 1/8th crumbled weed into an oven-safe glass bowl or pyrex cup and decarboxylize in the oven at 200F for 20 mins. I might even go longer than 20 mins until I get a dried consisitency.
   
2. After decarboxylization, pour 1 or 2 oz food-safe glycerine in the bowl or cup. Stir and mash the weed until it is fully submerged and in contact with the glycerine.
   
3. Cover the bowl or cup with a small plate or aluminum foil or other oven-safe cover so that air will not circulate as much, but no pressure will build inside the vessel.
   
4. Place the bowl/cup back in the oven and increase the temperature. This is where some commentary would be helpful. I'm thinking I would increase it to 250F. I've heard some cannabinoids evaporate at about 260F, so I want to keep it lower than that. Does anyone have any ideas about the highest safe temperature?
   
5. Cook at the higher temperature for about 2 hours. Again this is just an idea without having tried it. I'll monitor it and try to see if anything appears to be disolving into the glycerine. I'm thinking that 2 hours should be a good amount of time for an extraction. Also, Coelho has mentioned that he heats hash oil in a water bath for about 2 hours for isomerization. He said that 2 hours gives good results, and it begins to degrade after 3 hours --- so I'm thinking 2 hours would be good for extraction and isomerization without drgrading the THC. Maybe 2 hours is too much at this higher temperature? Comments on this are welcome!
   
6. Remove the bowl from the oven.
   
7. Cool to a reasonable temperature for handling.
   
8. Strain out the tincture into another container using a fine-mesh strainer, and pressing every bit of glycerine out.
   
9. That would be the end of the glycerine tincture process, but as a fallback measure, in case the process did not do a complete extraction, I would then do the normal green dragon extraction on the remaining weed mash:
   
   
   • Add 2 to 4 oz Everclear to the bowl.
     
   • Place the bowl in the ususal double-boiler water-bath setup.
     
   • Simmer for 20 mins.
     
   • Strain out alcohol.
     
   • Repeat with fresh Everclear and combine the two alcohol extractions. (Just combine the two green dragon alcohol extractions, not the glycerine extraction!)
10. Test the glycerine tincture to see if it worked. (Get high!)
    
11. Test the green dragon tincure to see if any THC was left in the mash. (Maybe get high again!)
    
12. Post results back to this thread.

What you would hope for is that the glycerine tincture would be nice and strong, and there would be nothing left for the green dragon. But since the glycerine process is kind of experimental at this point, I would do the green dragon process to make sure all the THC was captured.

Like I said, it will be awhile before I try this. If anyone has any comments beforehand, that would be great. If anyone tries any of these steps, please post the results!

[ucesq]

I think your process is a great idea since it allows for preservation of the weed (by way of the GD). As far as the cooking time, I think your guess is as good as mine.

On another thought, one way to get an airtight environment would be to use a pressure cooker. A pressure cooker is essentially the same thing as an autoclave (which was referenced in the previous recipe). A practical problem is that I can't seen to find a pressure cooker smaller than 4 quarts. Obviously if we are only making a few ounces, there will be quite a lot of air in the pressure cooker with the glycerine/cannabis mixture.

I did find a reference to a lady in the northwest U.S. (Oregon I think) that made the Glycerine tincture using a crockpot over several days. A crockpot is obviously not airtight but she claimed that it worked. I will try and find that recipe again and repost it here.

[ucesq]

Glycerine-based Tincture
by Leanne Barron


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Glycerine-based Tincture
You need to use food grade U.S.P glycerine, this can be relatively hard to find inexpensively but a gallon lasts a LONG time.

Glycerines have a shorter shelf life than alcohol based tinctures and while they can sit on the shelf I refrigerate mine. Vegetable glycerine has nearly no impact on blood sugar or insulin and is very low in calories (4.3 per gram). It's sweet taste makes the tincture more palatable than the alcohol based tincture and is a suitable substitute for those concerned with alcohol consumption.

Add the amount of cannabis that you desire for potency. I added 6 oz of roughly trimmed (finger trimmed the leaves off) cannabis to 1 gallon of glycerine. For your personal preference add more cannabis or less depending on desired potency. I blend mine, using a coffee grinder, blender or if you are lucky enough to have a Vita Mix. Make sure there is no other product matter in whatever you use. I use a clean basting brush to clean out my Vita Mix when I am done powdering my cannabis.

Place in a crockpot on low. Some crockpot's low settings are too high so you may not be able to use yours. A "Keep Warm" setting if you have it is the best choice. Too hot, and you are killing the properties you are trying to extract, you want the mixture to be as warm as possible without boiling, I left my tincture like this for 24 hours. I have heard people leaving the tincture from anywhere from 4-6 hours to 3 days. You can try the tincture at intervals to decide when you are done. REMEMBER that glycerine tincture retains heat VERY WELL, do not burn yourself!!

If you do not have a crockpot you can place the herbs in a clear, sealed jar in a warm, sunny spot and accomplish the same thing over 4 weeks. Some people make their "sunshine tinctures" over 2 weeks. I do not feel that is long enough, especially in colder weather. Some leave them in the sun for up to 12 weeks. I have never seen a need to go that long myself. Shake each day to mix the herbs in.

When ready to strain use cheesecloth and a strainer to extract the cannabis debris, the THC has been extracted and the tincture is ready to use. The best way to store is in a glass amber bottle. A good place to obtain a large bottle for the bulk of your tincture is a brewery store that has supplies to make wine or beer. I also obtained a few small amber bottles with eye droppers for convenience. It takes a lot longer to strain glycerine than it does alcohol, the tincture will drip when strained instead of flow.

[grumio]

I'm interested in this. I had some glycerin-based tincture purchased from an LA dispensary & it was lovely stuff. I've read just about everything I can find about it, & it seems to have a decidedly spotty track record. Anyone currently trying this?

Coelho - if you're still reading this thread - didn't you try putting ethanol GD into glycerin, only to have the hash oil precipitate out of the mixture? I know I've read something to that effect.

I know this can be done - I've had the stuff.

[Coelho]

Well... indeed this precipitation of hash oil did happen... look at:
http://boards.cannabis.com/recipes/1...ml#post1682835

And while i agree this tincture can be made (you have some of it to prove it ), i fear it actually needs a lot of time to be done. I couldnt find a fast way to solve the THC in the glycerin, so maybe the 36+ hours heating is actually needed.

But, of course, youre welcome to try it. And if you get some nice results, tell us! :thumbsup:

[NaughtyDreadz]

hmmm interesting... I have a friend who has all those things available in his lab... and I've got some killer dope... laddamercy!! :rasta:

[dragonrider]

I am making a glycerine tincture and will post results in this thread: http://boards.cannabis.com/concentra...ml#post1857564

[MNoisy]

Well I can say this officially..I made the drops and tried it on a few different electronic cigarettes and finally found one that worked! Placed about 4 to 5 drops in a carrtidge I emptied out in a e-cigarette from ProSmoke and let me tell you....it worked great! Definitely had a sweet smell to it but almost flavorless and odorless and WORKED AWESOME.



I tried a few other cigs but I dont think any of them had robust enough atmoizers to handle the VG. The e cig that finally worked was from Index of /



VERY EXCITED this worked! Now I can smoke it anywhere as well as have my normal electronic cigarette if I want that. AWESOME!!!!!

[LuvitHeart]

Greeting All,
I would like to know if kief and or hash could be used to make this glycerine tincture. If so does it still need to be decarboxylated.. And how would I go about doing that...