Oakland Airport Outrage

[Torog]

Howdy Gandalf,

Saddam kept Iraq secular,so that he could make all the decisions and he did so,with a brutal and savage,secret police force..are you saying that such is a desirable thing for any given country ? That we should have left such in place,that we should not have rocked the boat,because islamofascists may resent us ?

At any rate-this here thread is about what happened to our soldiers in Oakland,and there's gonna be an investigation and preliminary intel is that this has happened before.

Here in Texas,we give every returning soldier, a hero's welcome..there are so many folks wanting to go to the airport to welcome them home,that they can't git everyone a chance,they have to rotate the welcoming committee's.

I think that both Oakland and San Francisco,should be boycotted and early reactions of anger,are pointing in that direction. I think that tax-payer money should be withheld from both cities,if this is gonna be their policy towards our soldiers.

Have a good one ...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Howdy Gandalf,

Saddam kept Iraq secular,so that he could make all the decisions and he did so,with a brutal and savage,secret police force..are you saying that such is a desirable thing for any given country ? That we should have left such in place,that we should not have rocked the boat,because islamofascists may resent us ?

You may be surprised Torog but I agree with you on this. Saddam was a terrible SOB indeed. But I'm looking at the overal results of this invasion. Sure anybody can say it's good to depose a dictator, but world conflicts are a very strategically complicated matter. Much as I don't like saddam, the Iraqi's aren't better off having hundreds of thousands of them slaughtered, gangsters running their cities, and god knows how many of them maimed with concussions and lost limbs.

As is, the top sellers in Baghdad right now are viagra and valium, because the men are too stressed from constant violence to even have a sex drive or be able to sleep/relax.

I've already stated the many reasons why the Iraqi invasion is a strategic blunder in relation to Iran.

And lets face it, if this war were about deposing a brutal dictator, there are much worse dictators with much worse treatment over their people than Saddam. Why aren't we deposing them instead? I'll bet there wouldn't be an insurgency problem if America deposed the government in North Korea, the people under their rule are MUCH worse off than those under Saddam. You can bet that's one nation that actually would greet them as liberators, one that needs to be set free more than any other. And North Korea is undoubtedly a real threat.



I disagree with you possition Torog, but I can respect it because your heart's in the right place. Looking at the bigger picture, from many angles, I'm sorry to say I can't agree with you though.

[andruejaysin]

But there isn't a drop of oil anywhere in korea. And I gotta say valium and viagra sell pretty well worldwide, not sure you can really blame the war for that.

[mfqr]

Howdy Gandalf,

Well I suppose that ya could be right as far as support for the troops goes,but clearly-not the mission.

As you know,I fully support the mission,not just the troops.

This whole mess has been brewing since the '79 hostage crisis in Iran,if not since the inception of Islam.

Those who don't support the mission,are willfully turning a blind eye to the fact that muslim-jihadists are committing some of the most horrific acts of brutality ever witnessed in modern history..because the koran orders all muslims to aid in the dissolving of all non-muslim goverments and the death and subjugation of all non-muslims.

Have a good one ...

Eh, man, no disrespect, but I see propaganda in lots of your posts... the pictures, I mean. In every pro-war post you make, or at least the ones I've seen, you have propaganda pictures posted at the bottom of your posts. Why, though?

"I learned everything I need to Know about Islam on 9/11" - yep, so hate Islam as a whole because of 9/11 - even though there is no proof of an actual Al-Qaeda, or that Islamist extremists did it. And not to mention that there is no proof of a vast global terrorist network who hate freedom and want to kill us and terrorize us. No, not at all. The Islamist Extremists are not working in cells across the globe, to do terror attacks. They're extremists who want to restore the "real" Islam, and yes, they do it by killing those who claim to be muslim, but are not "real" muslims. This is purely a muslim thing, and is isolated to the middle-east and Egypt. they do not like the US, of course, but that is not part of their cause. They only want to get rid of the westernized society in THEIR Islamic countries. And, by the way, they are not highly organized. And the argument you have for the Koran, I believe, is exaggerated. It's more of the idea of getting rid of all fake muslims; those who claim to be muslim, but are not... corrupt muslims, in otherwords. That is who they believe they can kill with justice in the name of Islam. Al-Qaeda and the "vast terrorist network that is even in America!" is for the most part a lie. Not to say that there isn't terrorism in the world - but it's not any different nowadays than it was in the 60s. it hasn't changed!

I see your cause, Torog, but I seriously despise propaganda. Really, I do. But I mean no disrespect to you by saying this.

Take care

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

But there isn't a drop of oil anywhere in korea. And I gotta say valium and viagra sell pretty well worldwide, not sure you can really blame the war for that.

I was watching this CNN undercover report on it, the "pharmacies" handing them out are selling them like hotcakes (if the analogy actually held relevance). Damn, I wish I could remember the numbers but there's an extremely high and disproportionate amount of them using. Plus I saw several interviews with Iraqi men who said their nerves are just shot.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

They're extremists who want to restore the "real" Islam, and yes, they do it by killing those who claim to be muslim, but are not "real" muslims. This is purely a muslim thing, and is isolated to the middle-east and Egypt. they do not like the US, of course, but that is not part of their cause. They only want to get rid of the westernized society in THEIR Islamic countries. And, by the way, they are not highly organized. And the argument you have for the Koran, I believe, is exaggerated. It's more of the idea of getting rid of all fake muslims; those who claim to be muslim, but are not... corrupt muslims, in otherwords. That is who they believe they can kill with justice in the name of Islam.

I just thought I'd mention that if these extremists believe they are justified by the Koran in these actions, they are quite wrong. I read a passage from the Koran that explicitly stated (by Muhammad himself) "You must never kill a muslim. To kill another muslim is to kill us all". Now I'm sure these assholes justify it by declaring muslims "not real muslims", but in reality they can't justify their bullshit.

Friggin' hell it's frustrating how no matter what rules you lay down, somebody can rationalize breaking them completely.

[medicinal]

Torog, I see your patriotism and a wee bit of patriotism is all-right. It is when it is blinded by brainwash that it becomes a hindrance. Because someone does not support the "mission", or the president or the regime of cowardly individuals that are setting our foriegn policy, does not make them traitors. In fact the founding fathers had to break with British rule because it was also tainted. To say you are a patriot then blindly believe in the illegal war and all that it entails pretty much says your patriotism is skewed. Yeah I served during Viet Nam, never had to kill anyone (Thank God) but I immediately became aware of what a clusterfuck it was and was definently against it all the way. You can be a patriot and disagree with the people running things, especially when they are wrong. they were wrong in Nam and they are wrong here in Iraq. So please don't label me as a traitor. If the enemy (Whomever that may be) were marching down my streets, I would immediately join the insurgency, just as the Iraqi people have. That would make me a patriot.

[Psycho4Bud]

Now I'm sure these assholes justify it by declaring muslims "not real muslims", but in reality they can't justify their bullshit.

The term "Muslim" is way to vague when discussing this. Justification relates to the factions of the religion. Not to mention the others that are considered to side with the "infidels". LOL
What Is the Difference Between Sunni and Shiite Muslims--and Why Does It Matter?

Have a good one!:s4:

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Hahaha usually I don't agree with most of the pics and stuff Torog posts but that saving Europe's ass one is fucking great! :thumbsup:

[Psycho4Bud]

If the enemy (Whomever that may be) were marching down my streets, I would immediately join the insurgency, just as the Iraqi people have. That would make me a patriot.

The enemy marched on our soil and gave a kick in the nuts on 9-11.

Have a good one!:s4: