Does the past is real?

[Coelho]

Once, a friend of mine, asked me a question that i couldnt answer properly. Since then, i agree with him, but still am open for a good answer.

He asked "do you have any CONCRETE proof that the past REALLY existed"?
Like... the universe could have been created right now, as it is now. If we were created as we are now, with all memories already into our minds, how we could be sure that this memories were real, that they really refer to events that happened? How can we be sure that they are not only memories into our mind?
Note that im talking about everything and everybody and all the universe being created at the same time, so asking other people, or looking at the stars, or whatever just wont work.

Well... i couldnt answer. Since them, i couldnt believe any more in the realness of the past. I think there is a movie (blade runner?) where they put memories into the mind of androids to fool them and make they think they were real humans, or somewhat like it... so, what assures us that its not the same with us? If anybody have a good answer to it, please!!!

Coelho Reviewed by Coelho on 09-27-2007. Does the past is real? Once, a friend of mine, asked me a question that i couldnt answer properly. Since then, i agree with him, but still am open for a good answer. He asked "do you have any CONCRETE proof that the past REALLY existed"? Like... the universe could have been created right now, as it is now. If we were created as we are now, with all memories already into our minds, how we could be sure that this memories were real, that they really refer to events that happened? How can we be sure that they are Rating: 5

[sd6515]

Ummmm the pyramids, carbon dating, archaeological finds, written history proven to be from 1000's of years ago, dinosaur fossils, cave writings, the constant movement and changes cause by techtonic plates, mountains constantly changing, earthquakes, proof iceburgs carved out and changed the landscape, family trees(lineage), fossils in general, sandstone do I really have to go on I really hope you were really high when you wrote this lol I mean this is ALL CONCRETE proof and only a very short list
I mean even now as we speak the world is changing I geusse if you were really out there you could think the universe was created then all evidence was planted and then we just spontaneously appeared with memories but come on no one is that dumb lol

[dragonrider]

It's funny that you ask this question because I was just thinking about that yesterday. I posted something about it on the Crazy Stoned Idea Thread in the Experiences forum. When I was a kid I got this idea that maybe I had just been created a second earlier and all my memories had been implanted into my mind. I thought maybe all the past didn't really exist or maybe the reality I percieved wasn't actually real.

I had this idea before I had seen any movies about memory implantation or virtual reality. When I saw Blade Runner, I loved it. Part of the reason I liked it so much was because of the androids (they call them replicants in the movie) and the fake memories that they give them. The replicants only live a few years, so they ease them into their lives by giving them the fake memories. By the end of the movie, you are not sure if maybe the Deckard character, the main character whose job it is to hunt down and kill escaped replicants, is maybe himself a replicant. It is a great movie.

One of the things about these kinds of questions is that you will probably never know for sure the answer. It's more of a philosophical than practical question. From a practical point of view, you have to live your life like the past is real and that reality as you experience it is real.

It's the difference between subjective reality and objective reality. Subjective reality is the reality that you personally experience. Objective reality is the reality they way it actually is, independent of how you experience it. So maybe the objective reality is that the universe was formed in a Big Bang 15 billion years ago and has played out since then according to the laws of physics, or maybe the universe was created a second ago and all your memories were implanted into you, or maybe the universe is the dream of some super stoned alien, or maybe it is all just a virtual reality program or hologram. But your subjective reality is that you were born, you lived your life to thie point, you have your memories and the experinces that you have every day --- from a practival point of view, you have to live based on that subjective reality. But that doesn't mean it's not interesting to speculate about the nature of the objective reality!

Another intersting question is if the universe was just formed and your memories implanted, what is the purpose? Who did the implanting and why? Are they trying to trick you? Is it some kind of test? If you ask too many questions will they just erase your mind? Be careful!

[TheGreatBenzino]

Ummmm the pyramids, carbon dating, archaeological finds, written history proven to be from 1000's of years ago, dinosaur fossils, cave writings, the constant movement and changes cause by techtonic plates, mountains constantly changing, earthquakes, proof iceburgs carved out and changed the landscape, family trees(lineage), fossils in general, sandstone do I really have to go on I really hope you were really high when you wrote this lol I mean this is ALL CONCRETE proof and only a very short list
I mean even now as we speak the world is changing I geusse if you were really out there you could think the universe was created then all evidence was planted and then we just spontaneously appeared with memories but come on no one is that dumb lol

Kk while reading your post! i was impressed, then it happened....

let me explain it to you how i thought (in my head) hmmm this kid has some real facts to prove his side of the arguement..WAIT :wtf: WHAT THE FUCK!

after i read that you believe no one is this dumb... i lost all respect for your answer... why is it that he questions what you call reality, as conspicuous. He has a right to question what he thinks is questionable. NOW you have a right to debate his answer, but soon as you cut him down by sayig thinking that is "dumb" you lose all your credibility.

For you AMAZING question, i dont have an answer for you. I believe the past is real but how it got there i have no fucking clue. now i am a christian and believe in god, but the fact that he woke up one day said BOOM water boom trees, BOOM mountains, BOOM homosapiens (not what they were called when they first began on earth) who have such complex functions that millions of years down the road we still wouldnt even understand most. seriously think of the brain.. FUCK are you kidding me SOO CRAZY. i just can comprehend what happend years before us to invent electricity, space travel AMAZING!!!

so next time you give a GREAT answer (much props), just dont get negative..

:bigsmoke: -STAY LIT, QUESTION EVERYTHING!

[sd6515]

after i read that you believe no one is this dumb... i lost all respect for your answer... why is it that he questions what you call reality, as conspicuous. He has a right to

well read it again i was respond to what i said when i said this

I geusse if you were really out there you could think the universe was created then all evidence was planted and then we just spontaneously appeared with memories but come on no one is that dumb

not to his originall question I myself have had that same question when i was REALLY stoned and was not in anyway responding to his question by saying it was dumb I was saying that a theory no one existed to creat or plant anything but did and then we spontanopusly appeared with all memories and proof was dumb in response to the physical proof not the question or anyones right to ask any question of anykind is dumb

[TheGreatBenzino]

well read it again i was respond to what i said when i said this

not to his originall question I myself have had that same question when i was REALLY stoned and was not in anyway responding to his question by saying it was dumb I was saying that a theory no one existed to creat or plant anything but did and then we spontanopusly appeared with all memories and proof was dumb in response to the physical proof not the question or anyones right to ask any question of anykind is dumb

HAHAHA all this makes me laugh soo hard. you said dumb like 84 times! hahaha i wasn't trying to cut you down either, basically after i got done typing all that i realized it wasn't worth it but then i realized that i came to far not to post it! MUCH LOVE TO EVERYONE! and we are ALL RIGHT!

[sd6515]

and the creation as said in the Bible does not eliminate evolution if you know that the word that we translated into day from its' original language can also be translated as eons I myself am a christian and believe this is the way it was meant to be worded you know like in the first eon he created, not nesciarilly a day.
Once again I did not mean to be insultive to him more so i meant it to be towards my sarcastic theory and appologize for the miscommunication on my part.

[sd6515]

HAHAHA all this makes me laugh soo hard. you said dumb like 84 times!

RFLMAO I said dumb ONCE after I wrote a sarcastic theory and meant it towards my sarcastic theory
and wrote that i hope you were really high because this is one of the most common stoner discussions on earth and that i hope you were really high, next to hampster nipples a long running joke with my buddies, long story, this comes up more then anyhting

[TheGreatBenzino]

and the creation as said in the Bible does not eliminate evolution if you know that the word that we translated into day from its' original language can also be translated as eons I myself am a christian and believe this is the way it was meant to be worded you know like in the first eon he created, not nesciarilly a day.
Once again I did not mean to be insultive to him more so i meant it to be towards my sarcastic theory and appologize for the miscommunication on my part.

Eons make more sense! hahahaha, but still who has the knowledge to be like "this is a brain, really you will never find out to use it to its full potential, but ummmm good luck"

[dragonrider]

Ummmm the pyramids, carbon dating, archaeological finds, written history proven to be from 1000's of years ago, dinosaur fossils, cave writings, the constant movement and changes cause by techtonic plates, mountains constantly changing, earthquakes, proof iceburgs carved out and changed the landscape, family trees(lineage), fossils in general, sandstone do I really have to go on I really hope you were really high when you wrote this lol I mean this is ALL CONCRETE proof and only a very short list
I mean even now as we speak the world is changing I geusse if you were really out there you could think the universe was created then all evidence was planted and then we just spontaneously appeared with memories but come on no one is that dumb lol

I think the universe works pretty much the way science is finding it works. All the historical and scientific evidence that you mentioned are consisitent with each other and reinforce the same kinds of conclusions about how the universe works.

But the original question had more to do with concrete proof for the reality of reality itself. That can't be proven. As long as the universe was internally consistent in all of its physical laws, history, and scientific evidence, then there would be no way to prove that the universe was not just created a second ago, or just some kind of crazy simulation. The logical thing to think is that it was not a simluation, but you can't PROVE that it's not a simulation just becasue the universe is internally consisitent --- it could just be a very good internally consistent simulation.

Now if there was some kind of internal inconsistency, then you would have good reason to question whether reality was the way you thought it was. That's not what we find, so there's not a lot of reason to question the reality of the past, but it doesn't mean you can't.