Argument made by religious people that just isn't valid

[sd6515]

Just re-read that and I didnt mean for it to come out at all that aggressive or ranty sorry for that.

[psychocat]

Belief is just that and we are entitled to believe what we want.
I believe history as much as I believe the bible since they were both written before my time and I have no absolute proof of either. Has nobody heard of the saying "History is written by the victor" ?

Unless it's first hand how can anything be believed (including history) without concrete evidence?

[JaggedEdge]

I don't, not in the time that the Bible was written, the Bible doesn't preach to do these things it was what was considered acceptable and moral in that time, there are stills laws on the books in the US restricting women and minorities rights but that does not mean that we now condone it in fact we are working daily to remove them. But this argument sounds like a typical atheist rant which makes no sense when thought through a logical mind, are history books bad because they talk about the horrible act committed by the nazzis etc., no. Not to mention that the parts in the Bible you are reffering to are more of a history of our religion and definately not saying how we should act as Christians. Sure there are insane fundalmentalist Christians out there, like Bush and his war, but that is not what the Bible preaches to us in any way.

But anyways if we all were high all the time every thing would be a lot better. Well I'm of to smokem peace pipe

No the history books aren't bad because of Nazi Germany, but Hitler and his followers are.

The bible doesn't condone violence, really?
Taken from Does The Bible Preach Violence?

1)Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.


2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.


3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.


4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.


5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.


6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.


7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Rwanda was caused at the hands of a Christian fanatic with the support of a number of Bishops and priests.

The list of atrocities caused at the hands of religion is far to numerous to list here.

Your argument is extremely flawed.

[JaggedEdge]

Belief is just that and we are entitled to believe what we want.
I believe history as much as I believe the bible since they were both written before my time and I have no absolute proof of either. Has nobody heard of the saying "History is written by the victor" ?

Unless it's first hand how can anything be believed (including history) without concrete evidence?

A vast majority of history is not only based on written accounts, but archaeological discoveries as well. Historians also follow the historical method, meaning, it is a combination of primary sources (sources written near the time of the event), secondary sources, and evidence such as relics and artifacts found.

Religions are based on revelations, books written by the illiterate, and leaders with ulterior motives.

History generally doesn't claim to know what it can't reasonably prove. History gets it wrong sometimes, but is still far more reliable than one book.

[sd6515]

The bible doesn't condone violence, really?
Taken from Does The Bible Preach Violence?



Rwanda was caused at the hands of a Christian fanatic with the support of a number of Bishops and priests.

The list of atrocities caused at the hands of religion is far to numerous to list here.

Your argument is extremely flawed.[/QUOTE]

1.Most of your quotes are from the old testament for one which is a completely different tone then the new testament the one most protestant religions concentrate on. The old testament is meant much more as a history then teachings although they are there. The old testament God is described and portrayed as a vengful God. It is the old testament because it was written before the coming of Christ to save the world from there horrible wrong doings. God sent Jesus here to preach forgiveness not vengance.
2. The entire middle east is still in turmoil and yes it is religion that is there dispute but Christianity like Islam is a peacful religion and as with any beliefs religious or secular there will be radicals and fundmentalist who take the wrong message from the teachings.
3. I love how out of context your quotes are. Have you ever read the Bible, I mean read it like a book like it was intended to be read and then after you have read the bible front to back it then becomes a reference book. But never as a source to quote or justify reason for commiting attrocities. I more then agree that the Bible is used to justify unjustifiable things but that is not because of the Bible, these people would just find another religion or reason to commit these acts.
4. Out of context quotes are not a realistic way to defend a point, especially when you are not just quoting a paragraph of a 2 page story but a portion of one sentence of one verse. You could change a ton of meanings to a lot of things with that logic and "evidence".
5. Even the way the Bible is today is put together with the books, passages, and tone that the Catholic religion wanted at the time. A time when they required you to buy your salvation and forgiveness from the church. After you have read the entire Bible and not radicalist out of context quotes you could then read the multiple books of the Bible that the Catholic church has removed like the optic gospel of Paul and others that did not support the Catholic churches views. You know who he is right? The man who used to be Saul of Tarsus who went village to village killing Christians who was converted by God to peacefulness and spreading the gospel of love. The time of the Bible was a time of war and poverty by todays standards pretty much all religions were fighting with each other which is not the religion but mans need to be superior in every way to his foe and dominate him until they are. It is human nature that is the cause of these not the Bible or religion man just uses them to try to justify his actions.:jointsmile:

[sd6515]

The Gospel of Paul 1:1-2
1 My friends I am writing to bring
you the good news of our Lord, Jesus
Christ; and, to tell you of the remarkable
events that happened in the fortieth year
of my life. God delivered me twice from
death, and now I am writing to reveal
His majesty and love.
Verily God is compassionate, God is
merciful, God is lenient, God is wise, all
knowing. He knows what is in our
hearts, He knows what is in our minds.
He is the Lord of all Worlds. Blessed be
the name of the Lord.

[sd6515]

sorry 2 did show up
2 Here begins my journey inward:
Having been consumed by excess and
sin for decades, I was full of the world
and the world was full of me. I had
devoted my life to indulgence, and the
idolatry of money. Material things ruled
me, and I worshiped the physical
pleasures of this world. It was at this
moment that the most terrible and
wondrous of events happened. At the
twilight of spring a robber attempted to
murder me. His attempt failed, I
crippled him, and he would later die
from the wounds I inflicted. The Lord
had saved me from the wrath of man,
but not from myself.

[miley]

Unless it's first hand how can anything be believed (including history) without concrete evidence?

We have visual and physical evidence of the events listed in History books. If ya think about it believing that god created all is about the same as believing in the Big bang theory. Both are ways certain groups think the universe and everything was created but no one really knows for sure and most likely will never know. Its like an open ended question where you just fill in the blank with whatever you want. But we know for sure that the civil war existed because of all the photos, written accounts, and physical evidence.

Me personally I am more of a scientific guy. I'm not saying that i dont believe that there might be a god but it just makes more sense to me that the universe was created from itself a long ass time ago. Way before man, the dinosaurs, or even single celled organisms existed.

[sd6515]

the Bible supports that, the translation of the hebrew word we translated to days can also mean eons so they themselves are not mutually exclusive

[miley]

supports what?