911- Planned by US government???

[angry nomad]

thats not true the gov didnt do it one of my friends was on that plain how dare anyone say that i watched it it isnt convincing how do you explain flight 93 those people tried to kill the iraqis i dont believe this one bit its complete bs just like the goverment putting helis in our heads and little detectors and stuff rofl yeah i bet:wtf:

I don't know what you mean by "helis" but there is something called the RFID chip that the government wants to implant in all of us eventually. It is the same device they implant into pets to track their movements. They are right now in the stage of getting us to accept it, like how we accepted SSN's and living in a cashless society. In a few years, you will probably think getting a microchip implanted in you is a good idea. People all over the world are already getting "chipped."

Manchurian Candidate is the future.

Don't believe me, do the research for yourself.

[andruejaysin]

US government planning 9/11? Nonsense.

US goverment allowing 9/11? Perhaps.

US goverment cynically exploiting 9/11? Absolutely.

[eg420ne]

I vwould like to believe a rogue element of our government were not involved, but i cant.... to say they allowed it, is more criminal then they made it happen, i think...........and boy, they have used 9-11 to get everything they want, thats a no-shit moment.........

[mfqr]

US government planning 9/11? Nonsense.

US goverment allowing 9/11? Perhaps.

US goverment cynically exploiting 9/11? Absolutely.

There you go. Like I said, I never thought the actual government planned it. I think the ruling elite did.

[eg420ne]

Yeah, With the help of one or more government entities and foreign groups. no one would ever accused The Elite, our MSM will make sure of that ......

[Dplaya4life03]

Thank you mfgr for posting that bit about Bin Ladenin the CIA. I remeber reading that some of his family lived less than a few blocks away from the CIA headquarters. I too don't believe he had anything to do with 9/11 but act as the scapegoat. Do people really think some idiots who barely knew the art of flying a plane could have done what they did with such percision. All i can say is seeing it with your own eyes makes things look a lot different. I went to school in lower manhattan before going to college now and my mom worked in the building as well(fortunatly not killed). I've already formed my opinion and am not getting into the minor things that people always discuss. I like hard facts to. Has anyone ever read about the 600,000 pound steel beam the "flew" from the tower almost 400 feet away into a building in the surrounding area.(There are pictures if people dont believe it) If anyone can explain how an on average 300,000 pound plane, going INTO a building can make a beam that ways twice that go on miraculous flight AWAY from the tower let me know because the offiical explanation for it, was it flew across. Science unlike other things doesnt lie. In order to get that kinda of distance on something so massively heavy like that, you need some heavy duty materials. ie bombs, which blow things awaaaayyyy. Read up if you feel like it. One of the few scientifical reports about that day that gives the facts. Stuff about the people who were in the building before that day. Why the top floors the towers was shut down at night only allowing a few "construction" workers in with no security cameras operating to see what they were doing. Sounds just a bit fishy if you ask me. Theres way too much to discuss about this. If anyone want to read up, your answers are rite there
http://www.cloakanddagger.de/_Grossm...port_App_A.pdf

[Oneironaut]

These conspiracy theories are just ridiculous. There's no other word for them. Absolutely ridiculous. As a former believer in one of these ridiculous conspiracy theories, I can kind of understand why people believe them, but they're still ridiculous.

I believed in the 9/11 conspiracy for two main emotional reasons, and I got the feeling that others were believing for the same basic reasons. The first is my hatred for the Bush administration. I don't like Bush. I don't like Republicans. I don't like politicians in general. Being so ideologically opposed to Bush and his cronies, I felt this was a great opportunity to attack them further and to place the blame on them for something really horrible. It was so easy because I had lots of exposure to Bush and his ideology, and hardly any exposure at all to radical Muslims and their ideology. It's easier to pin the blame on something you're familiar with and for which you've harbored negative emotions for a long time. When you hate somebody and that person is being blamed, you don't want to look like you're supporting the guy, and you're likely to seize the opportunity to condemn him even if the claims are not supported by the facts.

The second emotional reason is just that conspiracy theories seem cool, don't they? It's like being in a real-life Tom Clancy novel. I mean, here you are, peering in on the government's top-secret mission, part of their top-secret plans to take over the world or start a giant holy war or seize oil fields or whatever. You've got the big scoop on a huge story. You've got so many disparate half-facts that you think you can justify your position in the face of all opposition, and you are smarter than everybody else because you are one of the few who have cracked the enigma.

In the mind of the conspiracy theorist, there are three types of people in the world. Believe me, I used to think this way, and this was the standard way of thinking in the conspiracy circles. The first group are the evil conspirators. They are extremely evil, almost unhumanly evil, they have no conscience at all, and they are willing to go to the most extreme of extremes to further their own self-interests. Also, they are extremely efficient at doing what they do; they can execute every plan flawlessly so that the public doesn't suspect a thing. However, they also blunder their plans so badly that there is a huge stream of mysterious holes in the story that the conspiracy theorist uses to uncover the "truth".

Which brings us to the second group: the theorists. These are the proud, the few, the saviors of the world. They know the truth and they have a mission to spread the information to the public. From their computer screens, they have remotely discovered the beacon of light that uncovers secrets unknown to everyone else. They are systematically oppressed, they are almost infallible in their analyses, and they're so smart that their explanations in everything from science to forensics to global politics always trump the explanations of professionals in those fields.

The third group consists of the vast majority of the world. These are the dupes. They are gullible and stupid. They believe everything the media/government tells them. There are two things you can do with them: convert them or laugh at them. Never mind that a lot of them bring decent arguments and decent evidence to the table; anything they say is just stuff they learned while the media was brainwashing them, so you can't take any of it seriously. You have to ignore all the counter-arguments and focus solely on the "truth" that is clean from evil media and government conspiracy influence. You seriously learn to filter arguments out of your brain because they don't agree with your theory; you are so convinced that government masterminds are fabricating all this evidence that you don't let yourself give in to arguments that appear rational. You reason that they only appear rational to fool you, so it actually reinforces your belief in the efficient cover-up. You become amazed at what an elaborate story the conspiracy has put together, and its coherency means to you only that the conspirators must be really really smart.

It's rather strange to look at this from the outside, because I used to be in that mindset, and I can still kind of put myself into the shoes I used to be in. But now it is so transparent that this is as kooky as the "moon landing hoax" conspiracy theory that I honestly don't understand how I was able to believe in something so wacky. Not that I hadn't believed kooky things before that, but...wow. The 9/11 conspiracy theory is so detached from reality that it's really quite sad. I hope other people can come to the same kinds of realizations that allowed me to free myself from that mindset.

[angry nomad]

You have not debated facts, only gave us a theory on conspiracy theorists' mindset.

How about debate some facts?

[PharmaCan]

I just heard an interview with the man who was the last firefighter resucued alive from the WTC. He was trapped when the first tower collapsed, then was incomunicado until being rescued 22 hours later. The interviewer asked what he thought about the damage when he was first rescued. He replied that he had no knowledge of what had happened, other than what he had heard (not on a radio but what he actually heard) while he was trapped.

He said, and this is a direct quote:

"When I got out, I didn't know what had happened. I thought a series of car bombs had gone off."

PC :wtf:

[Oneironaut]

You have not debated facts, only gave us a theory on conspiracy theorists' mindset.

How about debate some facts?

That's the thing. I know how you guys work. I used to have that mindset that I just described, and I'm sure you have it right now. No amount of debate can possibly change your mind due to the nature of the way of thinking you've got yourself trapped into. You'll debate these little half-"facts" all day long, each one of which to you looks like it puts a little hole in the standard theory, and you've got thoooooousands of them. If one of the arguments doesn't work, oh well, there's still a boatload, and you're not going to sway.

I used to do it myself. I would just barrage my opponents with so many misunderstood half-truths that they would have to do a detailed study of every little detail and scientific curiosity of the story to refute me, and a careful analysis of each misunderstanding would be impossible in a reasonable amount of time. In the creationism/evolution debate, we call this technique the "Gish Gallop". It's an effective way to convince people of nonsense if you have the time to memorize enough of these half-truths, especially obscure ones that most people involved with the subject wouldn't know the details about on the spot.

But eventually I was able to say to myself "hey, maybe I'm wrong; maybe I should step back and look at both sides objectively here". And until you open your mind and adopt that mindset, no amount of debate is going to get us anywhere, because you "know" 100% that you are right and you're not going to allow the possibility in your head for my arguments to make any sense. I can argue all day and all night long why it is so clear that Muslim jihadists were responsible, and every piece of that evidence is going to get brushed off as part of the big evil conspiracy. So I don't see why I should bother.