Stinky's Crash Course in "nOOb Hydro"... Welcome to the Darkside

[rottenfork]

I can plaster, if you need a few repairs done,
ive got All the tools!!! he he

[stinkyattic]

Duuude. Plaster party at Stinky's. I've got a few tools of my own... and I'm not afraid to use them! Mwahahahahahaa!

[rottenfork]

Sounds good to me, is that ceiling falling down because of you spilling water all over the attic floor, ooops, naughty naughty:stoned:

[stinkyattic]

Ehhh operator error lol... I bumped one of the lines refilling my res one day and didn't stick around long enough to notice that the return water was now hitting the pump line and being directed to ... elsewhere... not the res...

Luckily I own the place so it's a matter of not being a lazy bum and getting up on my Little Giant (those things are bad ass!!!).

Plus, as I might have stated earlier in the thread, one of the major advantages to the waterfall NFT is the res size can be quite small- even in the 5 gallon pail I ended up running only a 3-4 gallon nute solution, so the damage wasn't as bad as it would have been had I run a flood-n-drain of the same size off a 30 gallon res!

[QWIDGYBO]

No disrespect but for a beginner I don't think that system is the best. IMO there is no easier system than an Ebb/Flow table. Why? Well temp control, operation, nute changes, margin for error are all superior. I believe that net pots filled with hydroton and not rockwool for the reusability, on an ebb/flow table would be better. No plumbing either. Although I must say for the effort it takes to clean hydroton and the low price of rockwool, with the beginner in mind it is worth buying. Plants will easily last 3-7 days in moist rockwool should the pump fail. Where I live ebb/flow tables are quite inexpensive which is why after about a year of considering all the different methods I have chosen Ebb/Flow SOG. I realise people wanting to grow plants other than donkey dicks may find it a little difficult but as far as producing perpetual, gram/watt yeilds I think it is unmatched.

Just my 2 cents.

[stinkyattic]

The ebb/flow table takes extra equipment and maintenance (pump must be on a timer and flood schedule needs to be dialed in).
The res size is much larger.
The res will need to be aerated by an additional piece of equipment, whereas the vertical NFT self- aerates.
If you use net pots, they must be sunk in some substrate or protected from light in some manner. You can use the same pots I used in an ebb n flow though.
There is in fact plumbing for an ebb/flow.
How do I know this stuff? I used to run one. It was fine. My friends run them. They are fine. They have reservoir dumps too- one guy flooded his house with his 40 gallon res. Operator error of course, but you know. Plus the expense of purchasing a large res puts some people off who are looking to try out hydro for the first time with little investment.

I'm not sure what that jab about donkey dicks was all about- do you have a problem with me that I'm not aware of? Where in this thread was Donkey Dick even mentioned?

[QWIDGYBO]

The ebb/flow table takes extra equipment and maintenance (pump must be on a timer and flood schedule needs to be dialed in).

A feeding schedule is quite simple to formulate and the timer is as self-explanatory as they come.

The res size is much larger.

Much larger than what?

The res will need to be aerated by an additional piece of equipment, whereas the vertical NFT self- aerates.

I don't think that's all together true. When the draining occurs air is sucked into the root area. I think using an air pump would improve growth rates but IMO it is not a neccessity. Only in wall to wall, high density grows is it really needed IMO.

If you use net pots, they must be sunk in some substrate or protected from light in some manner. You can use the same pots I used in an ebb n flow though.

Hydroton would do...

There is in fact plumbing for an ebb/flow.
How do I know this stuff? I used to run one. It was fine. My friends run them. They are fine. They have reservoir dumps too- one guy flooded his house with his 40 gallon res. Operator error of course, but you know.

What plumbing? Fixing the flood/drain fittings?
House flooding like that is ridiculously uncommon...

Plus the expense of purchasing a large res puts some people off who are looking to try out hydro for the first time with little investment.

They must be expensive over your way...

I'm not sure what that jab about donkey dicks was all about- do you have a problem with me that I'm not aware of? Where in this thread was Donkey Dick even mentioned?

That was not a jab but nonetheless I am sorry if I caused offence. I was merely talking about my personal situation. I am a SOG enthusiast.

[stinkyattic]

You know what? This was meant to be an instructional log, not an argument over why I'm doing it wrong. So if you are interested in starting your own log showing noobs how to build, run, and maintain an ebb and flow system from scratch, that's great, and I promise I won't come in at the end and write an essay about why mine was better, okay?

-The timer may be self-explanatory as a piece of equipment, but the flood schedule is NOT. I've spent enough time in grow troubleshooting forums to see that yes, indeed, new growers have trouble matching their flood cycles to their plant size, temps, light intensity, and ambient humidity.

-For the same number of plants, the amount of water needed to flood a table vs. keep them constantly wetted using flow is much higher. Were I to have run flood n drain on this system, it would have been a 30 gallon res MINIMUM vs. the 4 gallons I used. This is a very efficient use of water and nutrients.

-You need an airstone in your reservoir to keep the nutrient solution aerated. That's what I was talking about. This prevents unwanted chemical reactions among nutrient components, and inhibits undesirable bacterial growth, as the level of dissolved gases is kept constant (=areobic).

-Hydroton WOULD do. I used to run a BED of hydroton. As with the reservoir, the system required a solid 5x the hydroton that the containerized one needed to be filled correctly. The idea behind the containers is that they not only hold the rootball, but protect it from light, using a bare minimum of pebbles. I also found that at the end of the grow, this system required much less cleaning. The flow action kept the pebbles completely free of algae and slime.

-Maybe you haven't met enough people who have flooded their grow areas. I have. A friend recently had to re-carpet his back room due to a reservoir problem. I believe it was a stray bit of hydroton blocking the drain pipe, and 50 gallons of Canna stains like a motherfucker when it dries.

-Yes. 'Over my way' a 5 gallon pail is $4 and a 40 gallon reservoir is the same as it is 'over your way' if the local hydro shop orders through NGW:
70716350 GAL EZ DRAIN LID$59.9570716450 GAL EZ DRAIN RESERVOIR$115.95That's about $175 for the set. Plus shipping.

If you had read earlier in it as well, you would have seen that another major goal was to develop a cheap system that would break down into small components and fit in the back of a compact car for ease of moving. Mine does just that- the entire volume of hydroton needed to run it just happens to EXACLTY fill up the 5 gallon pail that had been used as the res, all the tubing rolls up into a shopping bag, and the two leach trays nest together into a 4'x6"x6" package, whcih can be stuffed in a large duffel bag. Try doing that with a 4x4 ebb n flow table and the associated reservoir.

Hope this explains why I made this log.

[QWIDGYBO]

You know what? This was meant to be an instructional log, not an argument over why I'm doing it wrong. So if you are interested in starting your own log showing noobs how to build, run, and maintain an ebb and flow system from scratch, that's great, and I promise I won't come in at the end and write an essay about why mine was better, okay?

Touchy aren't we? Would you agree it is not a good idea to post a tutorial for beginners if it is not the most effective? I apologise for the discussion. Hardly an argument though...I merely wanted to hear your thoughts on the alternative. Again I apologise. I don't think plumbing is the answer for beginners. Pure and simple...
But I digress, clearly you do not wish to continue this conversation so I will not bother...

[stinkyattic]

I really DON'T wish to continue this conversation but it has nothing to do with being touchy, so how about you keep that opinion to yourself. I consider it more of a threadjack.

And I consider this to be a VERY streamlined and simple system for a beginner to assemble. There is a very good reason that the owner of the local hydro shop has one of these things tucked in amongst the 'floor models' of Aero, Ebb n Flow, and even an Omega that those of us with deeper pockets can afford, and it is full of lush, healthy pepper plants.

The plumbing is a matter of poking holes in flexi and sticking barbed fittings in them. A fifth-grader could do it.
Effective as in giving commercial yields in a dedicated grow room? Sure, flood and drain does that.
Effective as in a small system that fits in an average sized hall closet ( footprint 18" x 5 feet) and gives very respectable yields with minimal hassle? There's not a damn thing wrong with the vertical NFT. If you are interested in busting apart grow styles, go find a Phototron thread and tell them all the reasons it doesn't make sense...

Obviously, you are FAR beyond a beginner, so I don't even see why you are bothering with this discussion... Every troll knows it is FAR more satisfying to get a rise out of a mod with 13,000 posts than a member with 200. I hope you are enjoying yourself.