Quote Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
Imagine that you're walking along in a field, and you come upn a watch on the ground. You pick it up and admire its complexity, apparently contrived by an intelligent designer for a particular purpose - that of telling time. It would not occur to you to imagine that such an object had literally been there forever and had never been brought into existence at all. That would be ludicrous.
But if I walked through a field and picked up.... let's say, a rock, would I come to the same conclusion? One could literally come to the conclusion that "Wow, this thing seems like it's been here forever!" Your example only works if one picks up an object that they deem to be complex.

Quote Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
Nor would it enter your mind that such a complex set of interworking parts just happened to come into their structural relationship and thus come into being as a watch merely by the outworkings of chance.
Given billions of years (and billions more), sure. Since time keepers exist naturally in the real world (like the quartz from a watch), why can something not happen accidentally? there have been many inventions that happened from accidents, not every invention was thought up for a specific purpose.

Would a watch be crafted the way a human would make it? probably not, but could something arise that has the same function. Again, quartz is a good example. it keeps time because of its vibrations. our invention turns the quartz' vibration into the way we keep time.

Quote Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
The natural world around us contains many apparently complex and seemingly well-designed working structures that appear to serve well various purposes. Again, it is improbable that these natural processes and structures have been here forever or ot have been produced by blind chance, as it would the watch to either lie in the field forever, or to have come together by chance. The conclusion, is there is a divine watchmaker, a divine designer, behind the mechanisms of nature responsible for the designs we see there.
Again, complex is generally subjective and in the eye of the beholder.

The wheel could be viewed as complex, yet can occur naturally. A somewhat straight tree, on its side, functions as a wheel.

Levers can occur naturally. A Tree that falls onto a rock can become a lever.

So wheels and levers have existed for quite some time, man just figured out how to use what was already there.

Quote Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue
As a house imples a builder, and a garment a weaver, and a door a carpenter, so does the existence of the Universe imply a creator.
do you copy and paste this?

I have no problem in someone believing that the universe was intelligently, that's fine. But to say that it was the *only* way, and then to say that you know *for sure*, and then proceed to *know* what is in this beings heart, drawn on conclusions based from assumptions... that is something that I have a problem with.
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