In the beginning was the Word . . .

[Pass That Shit]

I can go with most of what you say, only the language bothers me. Christ was the manifestation of God's spirit; I get that. The fullness of deity dwelt within Him bodily; I get that. The son of man, son of God, I get that too. Only, the son of God was just that, the "son" of God. Can you separate "Christ" from Jesus; yes! He did it, and so can we. Can you separate God from Christ; yes. He did it, so can we. Jesus never exalted himself, but always sought to glorify the father. I imagine that when people worshiped him, they worshiped the Father within...not the image of the man!

Tell me, are you what you look like? Is your appearance you, or are you something else? Our bodies are images, PTS but they are not who we are. We are much more than our shells. We are defined by our characters, qualities, and spirit.

When I die, I pray God I'm not remembered by what I look like, lol. I pray I will be remembered by my contributions, my character, my inner qualities, and by the spirit I walked in. This is where God is in us, and we in God. All and in all through his spirit.

Jesus is Lord, or [Master] but he is not God himself; Christ was the essence of God, but only by the indwelling of God's spirit. Jesus was a Vessel, but not the father himself, only a full representation of the father "inwardly".

God's spirit is God's Word; Christ carried His Word to the cross. God raised Jesus from the Grave and several days later, he ascended to sit at the right hand of the father.

That's the beauty of salvation. A son of man exalted to such a level is not a thing to overlook. If he were infact God, our faith is in vain (IMO) Jesus conquered his human attributes through God's spirit, and we are to follow in his footsteps. He did not leave us comfortless, he is recieving us to himslef daily.

The Bible is fairly clear about who christ was, and about his relationship with the Father.

God is the source, all things radiate from God. God's spirit is God's essence, and Christ was the manifestation of God's essence. All of which share a common bond . . .


Love

If you lack understand of who he is, I can't make you understand it. Understanding comes from above. All I will leave you with is that Jesus was killed cause he claimed to be God. They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy. Sorry to say it Junk, I link you with those that put him to the cross. You would be in agreement with them to kill him cause you don't believe that he is God. By their law, he had to die cause he claimed to be God himself. Any other man that would be killed for claiming to be God would be fitting, but not Jesus cause he wasn't a liar. Jesus is LORD.

[JunkYard]

If you lack understand of who he is, I can't make you understand it. Understanding comes from above. All I will leave you with is that Jesus was killed cause he claimed to be God. They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy. Sorry to say it Junk, I link you with those that put him to the cross. You would be in agreement with them to kill him cause you don't believe that he is God. By their law, he had to die cause he claimed to be God himself. Any other man that would be killed for claiming to be God would be fitting, but not Jesus cause he wasn't a liar. Jesus is LORD.

I know Christ quite well, brother. You and many others however, have adopted a view that is not biblical. He was crucified because the religious leaders of the day viewed him as a threat to their way of life. They did not understand what Christ was saying, and sure, more than likely thought he was claiming to be God himself.

Read in context those I Am statements, the I and the father one statement, and the "if you have seen me, you have seen the father" statement. His speach was was at times, difficult to say the least.

I'll not insist that you see things the way I see them, but if you cannot explain your view to me, and "back it up" with scripture, then you are ducking the issue, which leads me to beleive that you are one who blindly follows "Church" doctrine as oppossed to what Christ himself taught.

As for me nailing Christ to the cross; didn't we all, PTS? That was his charge, for all humanity. None are innocent of His death; not even you.


Junk

[palerider7777]

I would have to say in the beginning there'd be God, not "the word". I know the word is god, but "the beginning" would predate language so the term "word" wouldn't have relevance yet. I'd have to say god would become the word, when there's somebody for it to be spoken to.

how can u say that i would think they were all around at the same time as each one completes the other do they not??

meaning, father, son, and the holyghost.

[jdmarcus59]

Ill put my 2 sence in later, if need be although there has been some good answers
so far, but I have to ask a qustion. what does btw mean? I finally figured out what lol
means. Iam not to hip on compuater short cuts lol. I just learned how to type this last
year. Iam out dated, and old ha ha. I dont even have a cell phone lol.

[Pass That Shit]

btw= by the way

Junk, the reason I didn't give you scripture last night was because there was plenty on the table for you from natureisawesome, that you obviously didn't believe. He shared some good scripture with you that clearly showed that Jesus is God. I know that beating it into you won't work. I'm not looking to convince anyone, I just give my testimony. I take it to another level, Jesus is not only God, but he is the Father. As far as me preaching what the "church" preaches, you are far from being accurate on this one, cause I don't know of any religion that teaches that Jesus is God the Father. Do you?

I'm gonna go out for a boat ride cause we are having a beautiful day today. I'll be back later and share scripture. I can back up EVERYTHING I said with SOUND DOCTRINE. You added so many things that are not given in the bible. This is called private interpretation which we are NOT to do. The truth is told with scripture, not with our opinions.

[palerider7777]

I know Christ quite well, brother. You and many others however, have adopted a view that is not biblical. He was crucified because the religious leaders of the day viewed him as a threat to their way of life. They did not understand what Christ was saying, and sure, more than likely thought he was claiming to be God himself.

Read in context those I Am statements, the I and the father one statement, and the "if you have seen me, you have seen the father" statement. His speach was was at times, difficult to say the least.

I'll not insist that you see things the way I see them, but if you cannot explain your view to me, and "back it up" with scripture, then you are ducking the issue, which leads me to beleive that you are one who blindly follows "Church" doctrine as oppossed to what Christ himself taught.

As for me nailing Christ to the cross; didn't we all, PTS? That was his charge, for all humanity. None are innocent of His death; not even you.


Junk

first off this meaning the church did use"They said, that Jesus as a man, claimed to be God and they did not believe him. So they killed him for blasphemy"this was there excuse so they could have him killed. but if u look the Pharisee/church was all about power and jesus was a big threat to that. and if u read the bible u can clearly see that jesus was not for the Pharisee/church as it clearly shows many times where jesus denounced them.

and went to there meeting telling/showing them there faults.also remember where jesus went to the church and tore the place up and called it a den of thiefs.so i have to agree with junkyard on this as he seem to have a better understanding.and if u really want to trace jesus back as to why he had to come to earth for all our sins read about saul and then david.if u open ur mind u can understand alot more don't just listen to sum preacher trying to make money. as most churches are all about the money it's big business now.i will say this and hope im clear as to how i write it out.

u know preachers/churches try to tell u that the bible is a book made to show u how to live ur life better and for the lord and can show u how to make money if u give to the church and all that. but the truth is, all god really wants is for u to see him as king of kings. and his own people"the jews" but they always turned there backs on him and only called on him in need.so read about saul thats where alot of stuff started as the jews wanted a king as the other tribes that was not even for god but sum man made god, and he told them but im ur god/king and that was not good enough for them. they wanted a ruler they could see.and all god wanted is the complete love and faith of his people and they would never be faithful to him.

thats why when i see everyone coming down hard on the jews and blame everything on them, and yes it might be true but it says in the bible eventhough thats the case u do nothin to them as god will judge them in his own time. as to this day they still don't believe he's been here.and the book of rev is mostly about judging the churches for being so corrupt, so if the jews would have had the faith and love for god that they should have had this would have never happened. and by the way even saul the first king of israel he did'nt even mind god so thats where david came in and i might add that david was one of the closest to god.and he could'nt even get the jews to be good.i could go on but it would be to long.

[natureisawesome]

Junkyard said:

The first scripture you quoted shows the separation between the son of man, and the father's Spirit dwelling in the Son of man; Thomas recognized both, Jesus as Lord, (Master) the inner dwelling of God's fullness the other. "My Lord and my God"

No. that's just ludicrous. You're reading things into the interpretation. Do you really think God would let a mere man be called "the savior of the world" and "my LORD and my GOD" or how about "prince of peace" "mighty God" "wonderful councelour" "HOLY ONE" etc. No.

Men bowed down and worshipped Jesus. They didn't worship God merely in Jesus.

Hebrews 1

1. IN MANY and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2. but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world, or [ages]

Here, the author who is 'unknown' speaks about God's son. [Christ] "Through", which is a very curious word implies a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):

No, it's not curious at all. When God created the heavens and the earth, he spoke them into existence, through the word. This is Jesus Christ. The word is God. God is eternal. He says he changes not " The same yesterday, and today, and forever".

VERY wide applications, imo. Consider also [world] which means "a Messianic period" or age

No, It can mean an age or perpetuity also, but that dosen't maek sense and doesn't fit the context.

Hebrews 11:3

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

In any case that's irrelevent to this topic.

Again, this speaks of Christ who is now sitting at the right hand of the Father. If Christ was God, how can he be sitting at the right hand of the father?

How can God be in heaven and his spirit in us on earth at the same time? The answer, all things are possible for God.

Can you separate "Christ" from Jesus; yes!

No!

If he were infact God, our faith is in vain

The Bible is fairly clear about who christ was, and about his relationship with the Father.

Yes that's true, which is why what you're saying is totally outrageous and blasphemous.

God is the source, all things radiate from God. God's spirit is God's essence, and Christ was the manifestation of God's essence. All of which share a common bond . . .

Where does it ever talk in the bible about Jesus having God's "essence". This is an idea you made up. It's not from scripture

"...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

--Philippians 2:5-8

It says Jesus is equal with God. Noone is equal with God but God. He will not givehis glory to another, as my previous quotations pointed out.

Isaiah 9:6

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He's directly calling the son, clear and plain - GOD. It doesn't say God in the son.


Here Jesus Christ says that in the spirit he will come to comfort his disciples (that is, he is one with God, meaning he is God .)

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:16-19

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

I don't want to argue about this anymore. If the Father clearly calling his son GOD doesn't convince you then there's not much more I can do.

[natureisawesome]

Don't let my screen name offend you. I selected that name when registering in here as a joke. I would have liked to change it, but as far as I know, the site does not allow it. Besides, to me, words are not curses. Cursing is when you curse God in your heart, which I do not.

By the way, are you a Cannabis user?

I would ask a moderator to change it for you. I'm sure they could. Even if not, I still think it's a good idea to change it. The way the word is being used like that is derogatory, and you claiming yourself to be Christian should know how powerful words can be. No, it's not cursing , as in the kind of curse you would curse someone but it's just not languange that should be coming from anyone striving for godliness. Jesus wouldn't use that language and you know it.

I don't want to argue about it a lot , but I thought it was worth saying something.

Yes, I use cannabis and it's not unlawful as my signature points out.

But do you believe that Jesus is God the Father?
Most christians on here say that Jesus is God, but deny that he is the Father. If you deny that Jesus is the Father,
you are in agreement with Junk without knowing it.

If Jesus had no distinction from the Father then there would be no Jesus Christ. I am far from agreeing with Junkyard as he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God at all and I do. It's not proper terminology to call Jesus the father, but on the other hand he is in the sense that he is one with the father and God is one. Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one = God.

I'm done with this thread. I think I've said all I need to say.

[natureisawesome]

edit: I quoted my previous post be accident.

[jdmarcus59]

yo junkyard what up man, are friend natureisawesome has put together a very good
argument to prove that Jesus is God and that he claimed to be God, I dont know how much
simpler it can be drawn out, it is taught through out the whole bible that He is God..

one more time" IN THE BEGINING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,
AND THE WORD WAS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace as always.