Will you sign a petition to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide?

[Oneironaut]

Any specific examples? There are things I disagree with them on (mostly their Libertarian political views), but for the most part they tell you they're just fucking around when they're not being totally scientific with something. And for the most part, they're debunking crazy stuff that has no chance of being true anyways, like tarot card readers, psychics who claim to talk to the dead, creationism, feng shui, haunted houses, etc. so I don't think they're obligated to take the credulous side seriously at all. If you want to believe in woo-woo nonsense, yeah, obviously you're not going to like the show, so go watch something else, but it's very entertaining for those of us who don't believe in that kind of crap, and that's really the whole point. They're in show business, they're not scientists.

[burnable]

sure there was the one where they had eight or so illegal immigrants and they were interviewing them and portrayed them as very nice and humble and nonthreatening, which was true in that case. the problem was they left the viewer thinking that illegal immigration is a fringe issue that doesn't need so much attention. We're not worried about the 95% that just want to make some income for their families, but the 5% that can easily hide in that flood of immigrants and that want to kill americans.

then there was one where they wanted to portray the obesity epidemic as totally misguided by having 5 guys, some thin some fat, compete in a physical endurance contest. The winners were obviously not just the thin guys. The real problem though is not that the big people have a harder time moving around, but that obesity is a cause for several diseases that have nothing to do with physical endurance.

That's all I can think of now. I remember that I saw one that I didn't have problems with, but it was just a description of the status quo. You're right, I shouldn't watch it if I don't like it, and I don't after half a dozen episodes or so. I just wish people wouldn't consider it educational. If they just want to see two boneheads make light of serious issues for entertainment purposes, have at it

[Oneironaut]

sure there was the one where they had eight or so illegal immigrants and they were interviewing them and portrayed them as very nice and humble and nonthreatening, which was true in that case. the problem was they left the viewer thinking that illegal immigration is a fringe issue that doesn't need so much attention. We're not worried about the 95% that just want to make some income for their families, but the 5% that can easily hide in that flood of immigrants and that want to kill americans.

Umm, WHAT?!?! One in twenty illegal immigrants want to kill Americans? Wow. I had no idea that kind of horrible racist stereotype was still taken seriously by people who know how to spell.

then there was one where they wanted to portray the obesity epidemic as totally misguided by having 5 guys, some thin some fat, compete in a physical endurance contest. The winners were obviously not just the thin guys. The real problem though is not that the big people have a harder time moving around, but that obesity is a cause for several diseases that have nothing to do with physical endurance.

I did not see that episode, but I can see how I might disagree with them on that issue. I doubt however that they totally denied that obesity is linked with adverse health effects.

That's all I can think of now. I remember that I saw one that I didn't have problems with, but it was just a description of the status quo. You're right, I shouldn't watch it if I don't like it, and I don't after half a dozen episodes or so. I just wish people wouldn't consider it educational. If they just want to see two boneheads make light of serious issues for entertainment purposes, have at it

Well, some of their episodes aren't as good as others. There are definitely some issues I think they are totally mistaken about, like their assertion that global warming is not something we should take seriously, their denial that second-hand smoke can have significant adverse health effects, and their unwavering support for large corporations and laissez-faire economics.

But it would be crazy for me to expect anybody to agree with me about everything. Everybody is wrong about some things, and that's fine. These are just two guys who are lucky enough to have a TV show to tell America how they think. And some of their episodes are really good and make excellent points with rock-solid research. If you don't believe me, check out their episode on how the war on drugs is bullshit. It is brilliant. When they're right, they are right with a refreshing vigor that I just love.
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[burnable]

Yeah those stats about terrorists aren't accurate. I should have made it clear that I was trying to convey a fractional percentage, not 1 in 20. Sorry; I was too busy trying to get my thoughts down I didn't put effort into those numbers. I don't know what the percentage is, but any percentage is too high if you ask me, and terrorists are going to have fluid behavior; any way they can succeed. I'm not trying to be a fear-mongerer; I just don't want to get comfortable in the fact that 9/11 was way back in 2001.

Hey, you clearly have the proper perspective about P&T, and probably any source that claims anything. I didn't want to accuse anyone of being uninformed unless they actually are.

[Oneironaut]

Why do you think cracking down on illegal immigrants would help prevent terrorism? If my memory serves me correctly, none of the September 11 hijackers were illegal immigrants. And I don't think that foreigners are significantly more likely to kill than home-bred Americans are. Timothy McVeigh was not an illegal immigrant. Ted Kaczynski was not an illegal immigrant. Eric Robert Rudolph was not an illegal immigrant. The way to stop terrorism isn't to deny foreigners rights that we let ourselves have. If everybody had the freedom to live where they want and to live the kind of life that they want to, terrorism wouldn't even be an issue. Freedom and love, not repression and hate, are the solution. As Benjamin Franklin so wisely said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[burnable]

I'm not saying the 911 terrorists were illegal immigrants, I'm saying loose border laws could potentially be an avenue for future terrorists. I'm not saying we need to prevent 911, it already happened. Border security is important even if you're not thinking about terrorism. I'm also not saying that border security is the cure for terrorism, I'm saying it's one of several things that needs to be done. I'm also not condoning encroaching on civil liberties to prevent terrorism.

k I just watched the video ,that's sweet. I like the part where they had the eggs and the bulldozer. I noticed they didn't need to interrupt their interviewees because the topic had enough substance on its own. If they did all their shows like that, instead of hunting down things they an make an issue out of, they'd have a lot more credibility, at least to people like me

[burnable]

I didn't really mean to provoke a discussion about terrorism, if I did I would have started with something less obscure than immigration. I think that no matter what we do in the next few dozen years, there will be a threat of terrorism from bin Laden's disciples, from the orphaned generation in Iraq, etc. But I definitely agree when you say to prevent it, we need to allow those in other countries the same liberties we have. I won't err in saying that the reason we are hated is because of what we've done recently. It's been compounded recently, but we were messin' with the then docile middle east after WW2, forming arbitrary national borders instead of letting them be tribalists like they want. Rome even occupied israel back in jesus' time. It was the same thing; the big bad west forcing its shit on who they thought were inferior, complacent people.

I really don't know much about jihadist terrorism, but I think that the war they've declared on us might not be mitigated by any immediate diplomatic action on our part. I like to think they are reasonable and that their war on us could be solved by something besides our entire annihilation.