thanks for the tips, but , Yup, tried it ... tried mountain lion pee, wolf pee, my sister (thought I was gonna say 'sister-pee', didn't ya ?) tried it for rabbits, no luck either ... I think it's because these deer are living in town with people, have no fear ... these little old ladies around here, feed the rat bastards, and think I'm just a mean old man ... :wtf: