Oh come on don't close the thread down because of a few people arguing, I've barely had the chance to get involved yet! There are still people in the thread who are treating others opinions with respect, whether or not anyone is being somewhat closed minded is irrelevant to me, I am engaged in an interesting dialogue with Natureisawesome and I would like to continue it, so please don't close it down. Natureisawesome if the thread gets modded then we can continue our debate about entropy and autopoiesis in the science section if you like...

EDIT: I see someone has been banned... shame.....