A path to faith with science

[natureisawesome]

You guys sure are giving my fingers a work out.

[JunkYard]

What I meant by making it known to those 'open' to receive, is that if they are not 'open' to receive, they won't receive. We simply can't make them, ya know?

[Hardcore Newbie]

We all need love man. We all need life. And we all have a consciencess and a need for peace. When I said that, I wasn't omitting the spiritual evidence, but I was talking about how all the plants and animals look incredibly designed. It's unreasonable to act like it doesn't and that it's unreasonable to consider (highly consider) that it's created.

looking incredibly designed, is again, purely subjective. Also, if we assume that these are the best designs, i don't think it's unreasonable that after a long long long long time, that the best designs are the ones that we see. We wouldn't see a bunch of shit that doesn't work, because... well... it doesn't work.

Just because you're happy doesn't mean you're right. Evil people live in happiness and pleasure too.

Well, I'm not doubtful of my conscience, and i don't doubt yours. So I guess we'll move one from this too. [/quote]

A truly omniscient God couldn't be truly igorant of anything. But I suppose he could just throw things randomly together if he wanted to. But does what we observe in the outside world resemble a jumbled mess?

Duck billed platypus. Even marijuana, to me, looks pretty damn jumbled. Appearance, again, is subjective. What looks organized to you may be disorganized to me, and vice versa.

Love never grows old. And again, does this reflect what we know about the evidence we have?

It'd explain a lot of things, like... hmmm, what example do I like to use a lot? talking animals? what better way to mess with someone than to make a donkey talk. Lots of things in religion seem like a guy who just says random things for kicks... Don't wear this, don't use pillows... STAND ON ONE LEG FOREVER!

Yes, I admit that's what axioms are. But we have the eternal also. And besides, shouldn't we go on the evidence we do have? Don't you think it's at least enough to reach out for God ?

not really. If god is this hidden to me and he, for whatever reason, needs me to recognize him, he can always take my open invite to chat and shoot the shit.

I didn't know that was an issue at all. I will review the thread.

maybe you'll actually answer the question I've posed, no one else has

Yes, they don't have the same recognition of God we do. That's one of the things that make them so different. But they are different creatures and so behave differently/ held to a different standard, but never anything truly evil. But I think animals have a conscience too. A dog knows when he's done wrong for example.

I think they feel too. But if animals can get along without god (assumed), then why can't humans? You think it'd be easier for us to get along than animals because we (presumably, again) have higher reasoning skills, and can see the benefit of having working together.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Not condescending at all, Hardcore. Merely a realization after the fact. All mankind is in need of God's grace. Some people just can't see it until they're on the other side.

Junk

Love

It is condescending, by it's very definition. You view yourself to have something that i don't, and in turn, you have the best prize, so to speak.

There's nothing for me to "find". I'm not lost.

[Hardcore Newbie]

You guys sure are giving my fingers a work out.

it'll make you a better typer, remember to use home keys.

Actually it's funny, I'm a self taught typer. I use my entire left hand fairly properly, but I only use the first and middle finger on my right hand. I only use the left shift and I only use my left thumb for the space bar. I also look at the keys most of the time, not because I don't know where the keys are, but simply out of habit.

I type at around 80 wpm tho

[JunkYard]

It is condescending, by it's very definition. You view yourself to have something that i don't, and in turn, you have the best prize, so to speak.

There's nothing for me to "find". I'm not lost.

I have something that very few have, but it's not because I am favored over you or anyone else; I merely wanted what I knew I was without. It wasn't until I gained that which I was without, until I realized that all mankind is "lost". Sounds a bit condescending perhaps, but only because 'you' perceive it to be.

I'm no better than you, Hardcore, when we claim to be better than others, we become high minded, boastful, self-righteous, and overly prideful. This in turn creates a great conflict within us, and often times, damages the spirit of those we view as being less than ourselves. Every single person is an extension of God; we are what we were made to be.

Listen, God views us all in the same light and His love is offered to all mankind. The difference is that those who embrace, and abide in Godâ??s love, allow that love to guide them. Through that love, they become better able to free themselves from the forces that harm them inwardly. We should therefore, accept one another equally, keeping in mind that we all partake in the human experience, and that all are sinners. Absolute perfection is beyond any of us; we all fall short of his glory.

By understanding this truth, we allow ourselves to have empathy, as well as compassion towards those who are bound in the ways of darkness. We come to realizes that they are simply unaware of the freedom that comes from embracing the love, or spirit of God. When we do this, we become better able to forgive and accept no matter where others are in life, and no matter how much we feel weâ??ve been wronged. We also become better able to forgive ourselves when we slip and do wrong to others, as we all do.

We wrestle against our own human natures, and the human nature of others. We wrestle against the spiritual forces of darkness that have rule and authority over us naturally. We wrestle against the powers that bind mankind in spirit. We wrestle against anger, bitterness, un-forgiveness, greed, lust, contempt, jealousy, envy, pride , fear, and every other spiritual force that destroys the inner man. These are the very roots of sin, through which every act against our Lord, ourselves, and our neighbors are committed.

This is why we are lost, Hardcore. We all wrestle with these 'spiritual chains', but these can be overcome through Christ and His Love. Think for one moment what life would be like without even the remnant of love we do know. I can only imagine the horror, and emptiness, and hopelessness such a life would entail. Love is mankindâ??s comfort, it is our safety, our peace, and our life force. Without it, this world would be a very dark, lonely, and empty place to dwell. It would be as if we were in a grave, rotting and decaying without hope of ever sustaining life at all. The term â??hell â?? might be appropriate to describe such an existence, or state of mind reflecting the darkness of the grave, where we are no longer capable to realize the Love of our God. The truth is that even with the remnant of love we do know, most are still in a metaphorical grave, unaware of the blessings that Godâ??s love provides.

There are some, who have experienced so little love in their lives, that they do not recognize what it is at all. This is a sad truth that we cannot close our eyes to. Without love mankind is lost; we cannot be free from our metaphorical â??gravesâ?� until we allow love to mature within us. Love must be cultivated as if it were a seed, with patience, sincerity, and faith. When we do this, and keep our hearts focused on it, we grow stronger in Godâ??s grace. This in turn creates a great sense of freedom, joy, and peace within ourselves. We must learn to cultivate love, and also plant it in others, bringing its increase in the world we live in. This is the Christian Charge. Although, it is seen in few.

Once you realize the freedom and the finding, you want others to experience it as well. Only with a pure love from the Father can we acheive this state of peace.


Junk


p.s sorry bout the length, bro.

[natureisawesome]

junkyard said:

Absolute perfection is beyond any of us; we all fall short of his glory.

Then why would Jesus tell us to be?

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's Gods grace that works in us and gives us the power to overcome sin. Those that walk by the Spirit will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Also,

Romans 7:16-18 (King James Version)

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do


16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

The bible teaches that those those are saved are no longer in sin as long as they walk by the spirit. But the flesh is corrupt, and so we war and struggle with the flesh and perservere until the end, when we will be freed from this body of death.

Romans 7:21-25

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[Hardcore Newbie]

I have something that very few have, but it's not because I am favored over you or anyone else; I merely wanted what I knew I was without. It wasn't until I gained that which I was without, until I realized that all mankind is "lost". Sounds a bit condescending perhaps, but only because 'you' perceive it to be.

I'm no better than you, Hardcore, when we claim to be better than others, we become high minded, boastful, self-righteous, and overly prideful. This in turn creates a great conflict within us, and often times, damages the spirit of those we view as being less than ourselves. Every single person is an extension of God; we are what we were made to be.

You don't have to be "better" than someone to be condescending. All you need is a perceived advantage. that perceived advantage would be salvation.

Listen, God views us all in the same light and His love is offered to all mankind. The difference is that those who embrace, and abide in Godâ??s love, allow that love to guide them. Through that love, they become better able to free themselves from the forces that harm them inwardly. We should therefore, accept one another equally, keeping in mind that we all partake in the human experience, and that all are sinners. Absolute perfection is beyond any of us; we all fall short of his glory.

I don't believe in sin. And I don't accept others equally. I see no reason to. I generally love people, but if you do things that I'd consider immoral, then you don't deserve my love. But, to those people, they don't care for my love in the first place.

By understanding this truth, we allow ourselves to have empathy, as well as compassion towards those who are bound in the ways of darkness. We come to realizes that they are simply unaware of the freedom that comes from embracing the love, or spirit of God. When we do this, we become better able to forgive and accept no matter where others are in life, and no matter how much we feel weâ??ve been wronged. We also become better able to forgive ourselves when we slip and do wrong to others, as we all do.

I rarely feel wronged, so I guess I don't see this need for forgiving others at all costs, because I rarely have to forgive anyone in the first place. I've surrounded myself with people (by chance, are mostly agnostics and atheists, oddly enough) who are good, we don't need God to be civil toward one another. We care for each other because we care for each other, not because we're enlightened by an outside source.

We wrestle against our own human natures, and the human nature of others. We wrestle against the spiritual forces of darkness that have rule and authority over us naturally. We wrestle against the powers that bind mankind in spirit. We wrestle against anger, bitterness, un-forgiveness, greed, lust, contempt, jealousy, envy, pride , fear, and every other spiritual force that destroys the inner man. These are the very roots of sin, through which every act against our Lord, ourselves, and our neighbors are committed.

Who is this 'we' that you describe? these feelings are things that I can honestly say I rarely feel. A fear of heights, maybe, but that's about it. I don't wrestle with any of that, ever. I can honestly say that I get mad about once every two years, have never felt jealousy, I'm decently humble (except when describing my humbleness), I don't lust.... This list of things you describe is nearly alien to me. I understand why some people can feel them, but it just doesn't happen to me. So I fail to see why I need God to rid myself of any of these feelings when i don't get them.

Once you realize the freedom and the finding, you want others to experience it as well. Only with a pure love from the Father can we acheive this state of peace.


Junk


p.s sorry bout the length, bro.

I have freedom. I want others to experience a life with only good emotions, as i do, they don't need God to do it either, they just have to realize that these emotions do no good.

And don't worry about the length of the post, it's only scripture that I dread reading, unless it's with my family. they've earned the time that i spend reading scripture with them. So while I don't agree with it, or even some of the messages, I enjoy reading with them. Much of my family desperately want me to believe, so seeing me read the bible puts a smile on their face, which makes me happy in turn.

[JunkYard]

junkyard said:



Then why would Jesus tell us to be?



It's Gods grace that works in us and gives us the power to overcome sin. Those that walk by the Spirit will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Also,



The bible teaches that those those are saved are no longer in sin as long as they walk by the spirit. But the flesh is corrupt, and so we war and struggle with the flesh and perservere until the end, when we will be freed from this body of death.

First, if you think that you can live a perfect life and "Never" even stumble then you are sadly mistaken. It is our curse and who we are. Yes, Jesus tells to be perfect, but this does not mean a literal perfection. We are made clean through Him, and through the spirit. A washing if you will, a spiritual baptism. This is the gift of salvation.


Junk

[JunkYard]

You don't have to be "better" than someone to be condescending. All you need is a perceived advantage. that perceived advantage would be salvation.


I don't believe in sin. And I don't accept others equally. I see no reason to. I generally love people, but if you do things that I'd consider immoral, then you don't deserve my love. But, to those people, they don't care for my love in the first place.

I rarely feel wronged, so I guess I don't see this need for forgiving others at all costs, because I rarely have to forgive anyone in the first place. I've surrounded myself with people (by chance, are mostly agnostics and atheists, oddly enough) who are good, we don't need God to be civil toward one another. We care for each other because we care for each other, not because we're enlightened by an outside source.

Who is this 'we' that you describe? these feelings are things that I can honestly say I rarely feel. A fear of heights, maybe, but that's about it. I don't wrestle with any of that, ever. I can honestly say that I get mad about once every two years, have never felt jealousy, I'm decently humble (except when describing my humbleness), I don't lust.... This list of things you describe is nearly alien to me. I understand why some people can feel them, but it just doesn't happen to me. So I fail to see why I need God to rid myself of any of these feelings when i don't get them.

I have freedom. I want others to experience a life with only good emotions, as i do, they don't need God to do it either, they just have to realize that these emotions do no good.

And don't worry about the length of the post, it's only scripture that I dread reading, unless it's with my family. they've earned the time that i spend reading scripture with them. So while I don't agree with it, or even some of the messages, I enjoy reading with them. Much of my family desperately want me to believe, so seeing me read the bible puts a smile on their face, which makes me happy in turn.

It sounds like you're very similar to how I was a couple yeras ago, hardcore. I still submit that all men are equal, tho. Do you feel like you are above others? Below? You never feel aggression, envy, bitterness, contempt? Maybe you're already where you need to be, then?