A path to faith with science

[natureisawesome]

H.b. said:

I rarely feel wronged, so I guess I don't see this need for forgiving others at all costs, because I rarely have to forgive anyone in the first place. I've surrounded myself with people (by chance, are mostly agnostics and atheists, oddly enough) who are good, we don't need God to be civil toward one another. We care for each other because we care for each other, not because we're enlightened by an outside source.

It's just like it says in scripture,

Luke 6:32-34

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

Everyone has thier own set of rules.Everyone has thier own "love". But God's ules arn't mans rules and God's love isn't mans love.

And of course I don't believe you're being honest with yourself. ANd no one can prove your conscience to you but yourself.

[Hardcore Newbie]

It sounds like you're very similar to how I was a couple yeras ago, hardcore. I still submit that all men are equal, tho. Do you feel like you are above others? Below? You never feel aggression, envy, bitterness, contempt? Maybe you're already where you need to be, then?

It depends on what you mean by 'above'. I'm happy that I love my life, maybe more so than others. If this makes me above someone else than so be it.

I feel aggressive when I'm being competitive. Only in sport, never in life.
My dad in particular wonders why I don't search for a higher paying job so I can get the nice things in life. I tell him I already have the nice things.
Bitter... contempt? about what? I have nothing to be bitter about or contempt anyone.

I know I'm already where I need to be, which is why I find the need for god talk... almost silly. I know that I'm not lost, so when people talk as if I (or anyone else without god) am lost, I have a hard time believing what they say. The idea that without God you are missing something is truly ridiculous in my eyes, and very pre-judgemental as well. It's a very weird viewpoint to me.

Imagine if i were to tell you that the only way to truly be happy was to learn French (not that I'm very good at it, just as an example). You'd think I was off my rocker You'd see no reason for it. And if I told you that you'd be lost without it, that it's the only way you'd find happiness, and the only way you'd ever realize it were to learn French and experience it for yourself. And if I passed it off as fact, and spoke about it with such certainty, over and over, it might be a little patronizing.

So I hope that you now see what I mean when I say that certain comments about being lost are condescending

[natureisawesome]

Junkyard said:

First, if you think that you can live a perfect life and "Never" even stumble then you are sadly mistaken. It is our curse and who we are. Yes, Jesus tells to be perfect, but this does not mean a literal perfection. We are made clean through Him, and through the spirit. A washing if you will, a spiritual baptism. This is the gift of salvation.

If I sin, it isn't me that that sins but my flesh in it death throes.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We have God's grace and abide in God's love by abiding in him. But to abide in him, we must keep his commandments.

John 15:9

9"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

It is literal when he says BE perfect just as the father is perfect. It means DO
That's the very context of the chapter. Do righteousness, and be perfect.

Mathew 5:39-48

39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Everyone has thier own set of rules.Everyone has thier own "love". But God's ules arn't mans rules and God's love isn't mans love.

And of course I don't believe you're being honest with yourself. ANd no one can prove your conscience to you but yourself.

I'm being totally honest with myself. What's so hard to believe about a man that realizes that these emotions aren't good things? I realized this at a young age. I also never feel stress, something else I find to be a negative. But it's weird. it's not like I feel myself feeling these things, realizing i don't want them, and then pushing them aside. they never surface in the first place.

If you don't believe me, that's fine. But why should I listen to a man that doesn't even trust me to be honest, even if it's only with myself? I have no reason to lie to you, nor myself. It serves no purpose.

edit* I also think it's odd that "of course [you] don't believe [me]". What's so "of course" about it that you can't believe me?

[natureisawesome]

H.b. said:

he idea that without God you are missing something

Being without God isn't missing anything??

Imagine if i were to tell you that the only way to truly be happy was to learn French

You're comparing God to learning french???

Slow down H.b., you're about to take this discussion to another level.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Being without God isn't missing anything??

Correct.

You're comparing God to learning french???

Slow down H.b., you're about to take this discussion to another level.

in a way yes. I'm just trying to show you how silly it looks to me to tell me that I'm lost because I don't have God. By your reaction, it seems that the comparison did exactly what it was intended to do.

Edit* Just wondering, where are you getting h.b from? I *just* noticed now

[JunkYard]

It depends on what you mean by 'above'. I'm happy that I love my life, maybe more so than others. If this makes me above someone else than so be it.

I feel aggressive when I'm being competitive. Only in sport, never in life.
My dad in particular wonders why I don't search for a higher paying job so I can get the nice things in life. I tell him I already have the nice things.
Bitter... contempt? about what? I have nothing to be bitter about or contempt anyone.

I know I'm already where I need to be, which is why I find the need for god talk... almost silly. I know that I'm not lost, so when people talk as if I (or anyone else without god) am lost, I have a hard time believing what they say. The idea that without God you are missing something is truly ridiculous in my eyes, and very pre-judgemental as well. It's a very weird viewpoint to me.

Imagine if i were to tell you that the only way to truly be happy was to learn French (not that I'm very good at it, just as an example). You'd think I was off my rocker You'd see no reason for it. And if I told you that you'd be lost without it, that it's the only way you'd find happiness, and the only way you'd ever realize it were to learn French and experience it for yourself. And if I passed it off as fact, and spoke about it with such certainty, over and over, it might be a little patronizing.

So I hope that you now see what I mean when I say that certain comments about being lost are condescending

I think condescending might be a wrong term here. I can only speak for myself, but I do not feel superior to anyone. I view everyone in equal terms. We are all human, we all make mistakes, and we all need love. This is where God comes in, bro. (God is Love) Most of us have experienced only remnants of love. Meaning we have only known love in measure, whether it came from family or from friends. Very few of us however, know and understand the power of Godâ??s Love, and what His grace can do for us.

If you feel satisfied, who am I to doubt you, Hardcore? I think the most important thing is to just be honest with yourself. Not that you're not being honest. You seem to be a geniune person, sincere, hopeful, and you have a calm about you that is quite refreshing.

I was merely attempting to help you understand my side of the fence, so that you might be better equipped if you ever earnestly gave God a chance. Christ tells us to enter in at the strait gate. I personally believe that love is that gate, and Christ the gatekeeper.

Much Love


Junk

[JunkYard]

It is literal when he says BE perfect just as the father is perfect. It means DO
That's the very context of the chapter. Do righteousness, and be perfect.

Exactly, do as Christ commands with all your heart follow him. but don't suggest that we can even come close to a literal perfection in this life and world we live in. All fall short of God's glory, none are good but the father.

We can keep our minds on his love, and keep is spirit churning within us, but we are sinners mate. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It almost reminds me of the humble publican:

The publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Junk

[natureisawesome]

Oh yeah, sorry about messing up the name Hardcore newbie. It says new-bee, so that just kind of stuck in my head.

I dare ask, who is kimbo peppers?

[Hardcore Newbie]

I think condescending might be a wrong term here. I can only speak for myself, but I do not feel superior to anyone. I view everyone in equal terms. We are all human, we all make mistakes, and we all need love. This is where God comes in, bro. (God is Love) Most of us have experienced only remnants of love. Meaning we have only known love in measure, whether it came from family or from friends. Very few of us however, know and understand the power of Godâ??s Love, and what His grace can do for us.

Again, a condescending doesn't necessarily mean the person thinks they're above someone else, just that they have an advantage.

How would you describe the person who tells you the you need French? It looks like I need a different word that better suits what I'm trying to say.

If you feel satisfied, who am I to doubt you, Hardcore? I think the most important thing is to just be honest with yourself. Not that you're not being honest. You seem to be a geniune person, sincere, hopeful, and you have a calm about you that is quite refreshing.

I was merely attempting to help you understand my side of the fence, so that you might be better equipped if you ever earnestly gave God a chance. Christ tells us to enter in at the strait gate. I personally believe that love is that gate, and Christ the gatekeeper.

Much Love


Junk

Thanks. Again for a comparison, but not meant to offend, for me to give god a chance would be like rearranging my life to fit a lie that I don't believe in. There are many things in the bible that I disagree with. Some things just seem too far fetched for me to take seriously. The Xian God is really the only God I know anything about, besides a bit of greek mythology and other historical religions.

If it's only about love, count me in. But to go against my mind to fit a God into my life which I personally can not see, have no evidence of, and frankly I don't even believe exists, it does nothing for me. it doesn't match my love. (I know NiA, I know, God's love is different than man's love)