A path to faith with science

[natureisawesome]

hardcore newbie:

I think this is why I'd be very hard to convince. For any event, there are a multitude of explanations on how it can occur. Maybe there was in ipod hidden in the donkey's hair, and it was chewing to look exactly like the words that it 'spoke' to me. There are tonnes of possibilities, it seems like whenever there's something we can't explain, people (in general) jump straight to god.

I think my reply before answers this.

[Hardcore Newbie]

hardcore newbie:



I think my reply before answers this.

I already agree that God is a possibility. I just think God is highly unlikely.

[natureisawesome]

I'm afraid that by insisting others come to your stand, you are driving them away. Understand that they do not posses what you posses, bro. Try to remember when you were lost, and how you came to understand the Grace of God. Did it come with a conversation? Did it come through an argument, or debate?

Yes, within myself. Any logic that tries to tell me it's wrong to reach out to those who are lost isn't reasonable. Appraently we can do it in every other area exception reliigion. Which is intersting. And for Christians It always comes with a conversion.

I do think there is a way you can approach others the right way without driving them away. But then again sometimes people are just bound to run away because they don't like what you're saying.

I don't know your motivation; I only get a glimps of you from what you post. You may be trying to save souls, but that is not your charge.

That's not what the bible says.

[Hardcore Newbie]

Yes, within myself. Any logic that tries to tell me it's wrong to reach out to those who are lost isn't reasonable. Appraently we can do it in every other area exception reliigion. Which is intersting. And for Christians It always comes with a conversion.

And this is also a very condescending view point. I am not lost.

I don't mind debating on philosophical levels and such, but please don't tell people who don't agree with you that they are in need of rescuing.

[JunkYard]

Yes, within myself. Any logic that tries to tell me it's wrong to reach out to those who are lost isn't reasonable. Appraently we can do it in every other area exception reliigion. Which is intersting. And for Christians It always comes with a conversion.

I do think there is a way you can approach others the right way without driving them away. But then again sometimes people are just bound to run away because they don't like what you're saying.



That's not what the bible says.

By all means reach out; I would never tell you otherwise. We are to increase through others what God has given to us. (Remember the talants) You are going to do what you are going to do. I'll not try to stop you. Just remember what is was that turned you.

Discussion is a great thing, but when it turns to argument, there is no win.

Show me where the Bible tells us to save souls, or that 'we' can. Are you God? Are you Christ? Do you really think that 'you' can save someone? We plant seeds, we encourage and instruct. We lead by example, and through our speach, understanding and disposition we make known the Gospel to those 'open' to receive.

:twocents:

[natureisawesome]

So why did you say that you think it's a total farce that people "pretend" to not recognize the existence of god? Other people might not have the same needs as you.

We all need love man. We all need life. And we all have a consciencess and a need for peace. When I said that, I wasn't omitting the spiritual evidence, but I was talking about how all the plants and animals look incredibly designed. It's unreasonable to act like it doesn't and that it's unreasonable to consider (highly consider) that it's created.

And I'm not sure what you mean by being doubtful of my conscious. If it's just a hypothetical, then I'll spell it out and say I'm quite happy with my moral system and my thought process.

Just because you're happy doesn't mean you're right. Evil people live in happiness and pleasure too.

Yeah, and that view is very condescending. There are quite a few analogies you could have chosen, but the parent and child is the one that you chose.

I couldn't think of another one at the moment. Let's move on.

that's assuming that this being didn't just throw things together for amusement and surprise. A being wouldn't have to be all knowing to create the universe. really fucking smart? yes. inifinitely smart? not necessarily. I'm sure God could devise a way of creating randomness that not even God would know the outcome of.

A truly omniscient God couldn't be truly igorant of anything. But I suppose he could just throw things randomly together if he wanted to. But does what we observe in the outside world resemble a jumbled mess?

We might be close, but God could just be a prankster. Putting out ideas for everyone to grasp, everything but the right one. Knowing as much as God does, you think It'd have to spice things up from time to time.

Love never grows old. And again, does this reflect what we know about the evidence we have?

And again, the pantheism. You said in a subsequent post when I asked why the universe couldn't be "supernatural", you said that the atom was only natural. Yes, that's what evidence points to, I agree, but to think that there's no possibility of the contrary, no matter how small, it's still an assumption that you must make to continue the argument.

Yes, I admit that's what axioms are. But we have the eternal also. And besides, shouldn't we go on the evidence we do have? Don't you think it's at least enough to reach out for God ?

This thread deals with the concept of all powerful beings and all knowing beings conflicting with free will, so instead of having that argument here, feel free to comment on that in the other thread.

I didn't know that was an issue at all. I will review the thread.

I also disagree with this. For many reasons. It's my assumptions that animals don't believe in deities, yet many of them get along fine. Sheep for example

Yes, they don't have the same recognition of God we do. That's one of the things that make them so different. But they are different creatures and so behave differently/ held to a different standard, but never anything truly evil. But I think animals have a conscience too. A dog knows when he's done wrong for example.

[natureisawesome]

And on that last note btw, animals do not get along always I'm sure sheep have conflicts too. The whole world is in corruption and it's tooth and fang. But I still think they have some recognition of God somehow, or else how could they recognise when they've done wrong, or act the way they do towards humans.

[JunkYard]

And this is also a very condescending view point. I am not lost.

I don't mind debating on philosophical levels and such, but please don't tell people who don't agree with you that they are in need of rescuing.

Not condescending at all, Hardcore. Merely a realization after the fact. All mankind is in need of God's grace. Some people just can't see it until they're on the other side.

Junk

Love

[natureisawesome]

junkyard

Show me where the Bible tells us to save souls, or that 'we' can. Are you God? Are you Christ? Do you really think that 'you' can save someone? We plant seeds, we encourage and instruct. We lead by example, and through our speach, understanding and disposition we make known the Gospel to those 'open' to receive.

Exactly what i'm doing. So there's no problem. exept the gospel is preached to all not just those open to recieve.

[JunkYard]

Oh yes, the seed is scattered even on the wayside.