A path to faith with science

[Hardcore Newbie]

It doesn't have to be attributed to some god or divine entity. That could be attributed to the supernatural, however. Or perhaps it could be attributed to evolution. Maybe somehow that donkey was a very rare breed who has evolved beyond all the others, and had gained enough intelligence to speak in a human way! Haha.

I think this is why I'd be very hard to convince. For any event, there are a multitude of explanations on how it can occur. Maybe there was in ipod hidden in the donkey's hair, and it was chewing to look exactly like the words that it 'spoke' to me. There are tonnes of possibilities, it seems like whenever there's something we can't explain, people (in general) jump straight to god.

[JunkYard]

I guess many things could be supernatural. talking donkeys for one. I really have a problem with that

But, if a donkey (which I've only seen in person a couple of time, I used to live in the country) talked to me, would I accept that as something that could *only* be explained by a higher power? or would i say that it could have been me... not hallucinating, because that draws comparisons to drugs, but daydreaming?

I honestly don't know. I guess it'd all depend on how surprised I was and how real it seemed. I guess what the donkey had to say would be important to. If it said "get a sandwich"..... hehe

I don't think you'll ever hear a donkey tell you to get a sandwich, haha! That would just be weird, or even a snake tricking you into eating a peice of fruit.

Supernatural to me, is that realm where things cannot be verified through science. Things like spirits, on the lower scale [emotion] on a higher, [honesty] and [love] and [compassion]. Can we know their substance? What they are made of? No, but we can experience them subjectively. This to me is supernatural. Same with God and faith.

We try to make things complicated, or religious leaders do so in attempt to gain control. Christ on the other hand simply told us to love one another as he loved us. [without condition]

It is an amazing thing when you come to a point where love permeates your being...It is an amazing [experience] through which my faith has been established. That is 'supernatural'


Junk

[jammin26]

if your talking about god, i'm him.

[JunkYard]

if your talking about god, i'm him.

Are you that I Am?
Or are you that Am Not?
Doesn't really matter friend
unless you got some pot.

[jammin26]

hello natureisawesome, ive read that post and some of that stuff is interesting. to be honest only the stuff about the universe i.e outside of the world - really catches my attention. the sort of mind i have, i will read sections of that and seriously wonder. whether you copied it out of a book, who know's, but if youve haven't that's good. heres what i think, lifes fucking rediculos god is dead. there aint spirituality anymore. society is shit i need a spliff to see any good which is wrong . i know no one i have no friends but heres the riff baby... im god... baby im the mutha fuckin G.O.D till im dead which is gonna be a fuckin long time unless some cunt fucks me or i get run over or some shit then i'll see whats on the other side of this shit.

[jammin26]

spot on, junkyard

[natureisawesome]

Imitator said:

I personally dont see why a pantheon of sorts isnt possibly the correct answer, if any is.

Just as christianity can say that there is plenty of evidence in this world to prove that what they believe in is true, so can many many other religions. Ignoring the incredibly long post I would have to make to explain my theory on gods and the creation of them... its not hard to fathom that perhaps the majority, or all of the worshiped gods exist. I always thought the part in 10 commandments "Thou shalt have no other gods before me", was a good sign that it was very possible.

I think I would be much more willing to accept and believe in a pantheon type setting then I would of just one religion being correct and all others before and after it are wrong. It just makes more sense.

I would write back to this, but first remember that It was adressed in the original post.

[natureisawesome]

Quote:
Originally Posted by natureisawesome
So more and more the realization dawned on me, until it bloomed into a wonderful realization. I realized that if there is a God, he must be someone reasonable, someone that has pure love. Someone who understands us and how we feel and created us for a purpose. More than anything I wanted a real purpose, something bigger than myself, something that would rescue me from the insanity of this world. Something clear and understandable, and a path to walk that brings forth the fruit desired.

Hardcore newbie:

Are you sure this has NOTHING to do with your view of the world?

Of course it has to do with my view of the world. But my logic, conscience and common sense and observation worked to help me come to that conclusion. I recognise my bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natureisawesome
Because it's just a total farce how people pretend to not recognize all the evidence of God in the natural world.

Hardcore newbie:

Yes, I realize this part of your post comes before the other part. Even so, it pretty much demonstrates the thought process. There was a time you felt empty, you found God, which was exactly the thing that you were hoping for. You wanted something bigger than you, a purpose, and to be rescued. Lo and behold, you found it in the Bible. Would you have ever adopted the Bible if you were content with your life? I can't say for sure, but probably not. It seems that the Bible only only became true when it fit your needs and desires

Why do so many always give the doubtful answer from the beginning. If my needs and desire were and are valid, which thier is no logical reason why they couldn't be, then the scenario would have be very similar to the scenario you gave above. That is, it would appear from an outside observer.

well, If you're doubtful of your own conscience then you'll probably be doubtful of others. But it's just one of those human experiences than nobody denies. Except this one they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natureisawesome
And it's hard to explain to some people, because somethings some people just don't understand the way you do, like when a parent tells his children not to do something and they just don't understand. But I have learned so much, and I know in my heart with a knowledge deeper than what any other sense can know that my faith is true.

hardcore newbie:

I stopped blindly listening to my parents as soon as I developed a thing called reasoning. If my parents didn't have a valid reason for my doing or not doing something, they had to explain it to me. If they didn't have a valid reason, then there's obviously no need to follow the commands. And i was hardly a rebellious kid, i just figured that things need reasoning behind them.

I believe in having a mind of your own, and testing things to see if they hold to be true, but i also beleive in listening to your parents and obeying them because they're your parents and they have authority over you and you would want your kids to be obedient children as well. That doesn't mean you have to be a robot and just belive what everbody says though.

nice try equating yourself with the concerned parent only looking out for the ignorant children, but parent's aren't always right, and we're not children.

I thought you might take it that way. I never meant it that way. I was only using that as an example because the older person has had experiences that the younger hasn't and doesn't understand the same way.

No, I'm not your parent.

[natureisawesome]

Junkyard said:

Religious arrogance, pride, and selfrighteousness will destroy organized religion. When will it end? It ends when the 'message' of Christ is realized. Love, equality, acceptance, forgiveness, life ...

Will the faithless ever see? Will the bible thumpers come to see? After they experience true Grace, I think they might. It depends upon their willingness to receive, understand, embrace and follow something pure.

True grace is found in Jesus Christ. And Love forgiveness and understanding too.

[natureisawesome]

OZo:

This argument falls apart when causal relationships are assumed. As many philosophers have already pointed out.

Please elaborate.