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  1.     
    #11
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    I got to thinking on this, and I've drawn a conclusion that even the idea of an all powerful being itself is an impossibility. All powerful would include the power to see the future, yes?

    Anyone care to rebut or are we all in agreement ?

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  3.     
    #12
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
    I can't do anything that hasn't already been written, if there is an all knowing being. If i did anything else, then that being would be wrong. God is supposedly an all knowing being. I can't do anything else besides what god already sees. It'd be different if this apparent god weren't infallible, then we might be able to change our destinies.

    If god sees me die a certain way, wouldn't it be impossible for me to die in any other way?

    If god sees what meals I will eat next week, can I magically choose different ones or not eat all together?
    God works through your free will.
    walk this earth to search and find.
    and if you find the truth dont hide.
    for this may be your last day to try.

  4.     
    #13
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmarcus59
    God works through your free will.
    What does that even mean? He's controlling me?

  5.     
    #14
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
    What does that even mean? He's controlling me?
    no he is not controling you, you have free will to do what you want
    if you did not have free will then you would be nothing more then a programed robot, destened to do only what you have been programed to do, but God has given you free will so that you can choses to belive in him are not belive, and God works through your free will to work all things out for the good,I went to prison once and even tho it was not Gods will that I broke the law and had to go to prison, he used that prison experience to my good so that I would
    come to repentence, are to a point were I had a change of heart.
    so God took what was bad and turned it around for my good, it was not Gods perfect wiil that I had to go down to the pit, but because of his great love for us he is able to take a lump of coal and turn it to a stone of great value
    premium stone of great worth
    walk this earth to search and find.
    and if you find the truth dont hide.
    for this may be your last day to try.

  6.     
    #15
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    So, you quoted my original passage with no intentions of answering the actual questions. You've answered my request for clarification, but your clarification still has nothing to do with the original questions. You've given me an "answer" in a way that any politician would. So my questions stand (to all )

    "If god sees me die a certain way, wouldn't it be impossible for me to die in any other way?

    If god sees what meals I will eat next week, can I magically choose different ones or not eat all together?
    "

  7.     
    #16
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
    So, you quoted my original passage with no intentions of answering the actual questions. You've answered my request for clarification, but your clarification still has nothing to do with the original questions. You've given me an "answer" in a way that any politician would. So my questions stand (to all )

    "If god sees me die a certain way, wouldn't it be impossible for me to die in any other way?

    If god sees what meals I will eat next week, can I magically choose different ones or not eat all together?
    "
    just because God can see what you are going to eat next week
    does not mean you have no choses on what you eat, God does not program you, you eat what YOU want to eat, not what He whats you to eat, I dont know why this is so hard for you to understand
    walk this earth to search and find.
    and if you find the truth dont hide.
    for this may be your last day to try.

  8.     
    #17
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmarcus59
    just because God can see what you are going to eat next week
    does not mean you have no choses on what you eat, God does not program you, you eat what YOU want to eat, not what He whats you to eat, I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand
    whether it is an object, an action or a concept it must already exist before it can be known. an omniscient deity would have known at the beginning of time that i was going to eat that piece of fried chicken in the refrigerator tonight. so the decision was already made at the beginning of time. the decision i made at the last moment to eat that chicken was nothing more than an illusion if the outcome was known in advance. no matter how you cloak it, foreknowledge of the outcome of an event eliminates the possibility of free choice at the moment of the event.

  9.     
    #18
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmarcus59
    just because God can see what you are going to eat next week
    does not mean you have no choses on what you eat, God does not program you, you eat what YOU want to eat, not what He whats you to eat, I dont know why this is so hard for you to understand
    Again, you didn't directly answer the questions. Since you're unwilling or unable to answer them, I will answer them for you.
    1. Since God has seen HN's death, it would of course be impossible to die in any other way. To be able to do so would mean that God is fallible, and this is not so.
    2. No, you cannot magically choose another meal, for the same reason. The ability to change the future from what God has seen would be to overpower God, and God is all powerful.
    If you don't believe these statements to be the case, please answer the previous questions, with your rebuttal.

    And please, if you wish to rebut, don't sidestep the questions, take them head on. If your belief that free will is possible in spite of a being knowing the absolute future, then the questions themselves should be easily answered.

  10.     
    #19
    Member

    does the believe in god

    We're just a chemical reaction tho'. Everything we do or "chose" to do is based on the previous parts of our lives and the matter inside and around us.

    There was a philosopher who said that if you knew where every single piece of matter was in the universe, and knew how it would react to every other piece, you could predict what the universe would look like any numbers of years into the future, right down to the evoloution of humans and what they got up to in detail.

  11.     
    #20
    Senior Member

    does the believe in god

    Quote Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity
    whether it is an object, an action or a concept it must already exist before it can be known. an omniscient deity would have known at the beginning of time that i was going to eat that piece of fried chicken in the refrigerator tonight. so the decision was already made at the beginning of time. the decision i made at the last moment to eat that chicken was nothing more than an illusion if the outcome was known in advance. no matter how you cloak it, foreknowledge of the outcome of an event eliminates the possibility of free choice at the moment of the event.
    yes God does have foreknowledge, and what that means is, that he knows what we are going to choses to do, but he does not make us do anything aganst are FREE WILL, its a deep subject and people can go round and round about it, so I will just leave it at that. NEXT.
    walk this earth to search and find.
    and if you find the truth dont hide.
    for this may be your last day to try.

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