LST or not to LST

[MaryLane]

Alright, so I'm moving forward with my plans for a grow. I've got a lot more vertical height than I thought I would. So my question is this: if height is not an issue, should I still train my plant or not?

Are SOG, SCROG, LST etc. superior to just letting the plant grow normally, assuming unlimited space? In other words, is it always more productive to train, or SOG etc., or is that only effective when space is limited?

It looks like I'll have 1 to 1.5 meters worth of vertical room (between the soil and lights) to play with. Would this be enough for a pure sativa strain?

Thanks!

MaryLane Reviewed by MaryLane on 08-11-2007. LST or not to LST Alright, so I'm moving forward with my plans for a grow. I've got a lot more vertical height than I thought I would. So my question is this: if height is not an issue, should I still train my plant or not? Are SOG, SCROG, LST etc. superior to just letting the plant grow normally, assuming unlimited space? In other words, is it always more productive to train, or SOG etc., or is that only effective when space is limited? It looks like I'll have 1 to 1.5 meters worth of vertical room Rating: 5

[jaGerbom]

A pure sativa strain is going to grow pretty tall unless you train it.

[MaryLane]

Ahh, of course, but would the plant produce better/more (quality > quantity, so long as quantity is enough to last myself and my spouse between harvests, which should not be a problem) buds if it were trained, or if left to grow however the plant decides is best?

A pure sativa strain is going to grow pretty tall unless you train it.

[Weedhound]

I can tell you only in a vague way that different strains respond differently to training as far as improving yield....I think that's the question right? It would pay to check into what you are going to grow and see if it does well with things like topping, lst etc...
I personally have never had a problem topping and bending the different kinds I have grown BUT....I have not grown sativas so cannot offer any real opinion on how they do with training.

The other issue you have to consider with height is not how tall your plant gets but how much light you are getting to the both the upper and lower parts of the plant to ensure maximum yield. This is not easy to do with one light above a ten to 12 foot plant and that's where the issue comes of training often comes in. Rather than "space" issues its more a matter of "light" issues. Max lighting to all areas of the plant produce max yield.

[MaryLane]

Hmm, so training, topping etc. cannot be generally said to be better, or worse, than just letting the plant grow naturally?



I was planning on allowing my plants to get up to about 1m tall under a 400w HPS. I would trim the leaves and bend as necessary to allow light to get to the lower branches. I was also thinking about putting a couple of T5s in there among the plants to keep the light down low.

I do know that so long as I can get about 120-140 grams per harvest, that should last my spouse and I until the next harvest. Once I get to that yield, all I care about is potency. Is this possible to do with 2 or 3 plants, with minimal LST or topping? I really want to keep my first grow simple, so I can learn the basics. I figure this shoud also make it easier to keep the quality of the plant high.

[Weedhound]

140 gms...5oz...off of 2-3 many plants? You'd REALLY be pushing it under 400watts without any training. The T5's will help....but they certainly aren't anywhere near a 400w hps...you know what I mean? Again...that's where the training comes in. WITH training and practice and the right strain.....you can get tease quite a bit from these plants. But they take work to get a good finished product. Also consider this.....you're spending X amount of time working on and growing these plants more or less. Why not get the best out of them you can? You've expended money, energy, and time either way. I understand your desire to keep it simple....which is smart.....but reduced yield will go along with that.

Lastly.....when you talk about pruning I tend to think more of supercropping....trimming fair amounts of the plant such as entire branches or lots of leaves to change the shape of the plant or to improve light to budsites. I consider topping to be snipping the top off of the plant to increase side branching. Just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.....not trying to correct you or anything :stoned: but wanted to say that supercropping will add several weeks to the amount of time your plant will need for blooming. Takes that long for them to recover and pick back up where they left off. I know this for a fact......guess why. (now...!)

[MaryLane]

This is exactly the information I was looking for! Thanks!

Ok, basic LST techniques seem easy enough. I was going to use 5 gallon buckets and put a bunch of screws into the lip. I was then going to get a soft cotton string and train the plant down to the screws and around the lip of the bucket. Would it be effective to do any topping as well? This forces the plant to create several budsites where one would have been, correct?

I have about a 1m x .5m x 2m (maybe 2.5m) [about 3' x 1.5' x 6' - 7'] growing area. The groundspace is the limiting issue more than anything else. If I can find a better location in my home to place it I might be able to get more width. I was thinking I could probably fit 4 plants into this area with the right training. Should I use more than 1 400w HPS? Electricity costs and start up costs are a concern for me. 5oz. is also the maximum I'd need. My spouse and I really don't have a lot of time to actually stay stoned (unfortunately), so mostly we do a couple of bowls or joints in the evening before bed. That is of course midgrade, regular weed. We were hoping that I could grow much more potent buds. If that's the case, the amount we smoked would probably be drastically reduced. I think in this situation 1oz a month would be plenty (we can make 4 grams last several weeks if we have to lol).

Thank you for the candid and informative post! I hope you don't mind my noob questions! Believe it or not I have done a lot of research on this and other forums, but the information is spread out and somewhat haphazard, so having my own thread where I can ask specific questions is very helpful.

I'll be picking up Jorge Cervante's Grower's Bible soon. It seemed like a really good reference and it had really good pictures which I think would really help me in sexing plants, figuring out any problems I might be having and whatnot.

140 gms...5oz...off of 2-3 many plants? You'd REALLY be pushing it under 400watts without any training. The T5's will help....but they certainly aren't anywhere near a 400w hps...you know what I mean? Again...that's where the training comes in. WITH training and practice and the right strain.....you can get tease quite a bit from these plants. But they take work to get a good finished product. Also consider this.....you're spending X amount of time working on and growing these plants more or less. Why not get the best out of them you can? You've expended money, energy, and time either way. I understand your desire to keep it simple....which is smart.....but reduced yield will go along with that.

Lastly.....when you talk about pruning I tend to think more of supercropping....trimming fair amounts of the plant such as entire branches or lots of leaves to change the shape of the plant or to improve light to budsites. I consider topping to be snipping the top off of the plant to increase side branching. Just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing.....not trying to correct you or anything :stoned: but wanted to say that supercropping will add several weeks to the amount of time your plant will need for blooming. Takes that long for them to recover and pick back up where they left off. I know this for a fact......guess why. (now...!)

[MaryLane]

By the way, I don't think heat will be a factor, so if more lighting is required for the yield I am looking for, it should not be a problem to get set up (though money might be a limiting factor). I've designed lighting systems over reef aquariums in the thousands of watts where the tank had to stay at 78F with no more than 1 or 2 (maximum) degrees variation throughout the day (regardless of whether the lights were on or off). I'm not at all concerned with the hardware set up, but rather with the actual growing of the plants.

I've considered hydroponics but would prefer soil just for the simplicity and lower cost.

Thanks again!

[xcrispi]

Whats up ,
LST - FIM'ing - Topping - Scrog * are your friend . One , or a combonation of a cpl. of these techn. will greatly increse yields . With a 400hps after 30in. you lose huge firepower / penetration = small airy popcorn nonsense .
PLEASE read this entire thread = link below "Lovely Ladies" by Justaseed . = 400 hps - 3 plants from clone in soil topped ,lst'd and scrogged . = 12 oz. in a lil cabinet if Im not mistaken - stealth - they got lil kids n stuff . This is after a lil practice , but is the most effective use of a small space and small light I have ever seen .
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:


http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-ca...ly-ladies.html

[Weedhound]

Believe me you should listen to X-C....he just pulled 19oz (NOT a misprint) off one plant in his hydro system.

You are the one who used to grow coral correct? Believe me....hydro is PERFECT for you.....did you get my post about growing ganja is more like gouramis and tetras? Seriously......you won't have any trouble.

More lighting almost ALWAYS results in more yield from flowering......the issue that most people have with HID lights is indeed heat.....which it sounds like you PROBABLY WOULD BLOODY HAVE UNDER CONTROL if you can put a few thousand watts together over a fish tank without budging the temp. :thumbsup: Go crazy by all means then.....more light!!! Light all around!!!!

Obviously make sure your spectrum is the correct one for flowering.....hps being considered the best for that.

X-C.....same sized space....400w vs 1kw.....how much difference approx in yield?

Edit...sure enough it was a misprint. Fixed now.