LST or not to LST

[Weedhound]

PS....I like garden tape to lst my plants with. It gives nicely and so doesn't cause damage to the branch while growing.....they grow quicker than it seems.

[xcrispi]

Hey Sis.
Even 400 to a 600 w jump will be huge increase in yield muchless 400 to a 1000 .
Justaseed threatened to do a 1000w cooltube scrog but I haven't seen him post in a while ? I pay attn. to lumen output myself . 600w = 100,000 , 1000w = 135,000 . Im not real sure about the smaller lamps - these #'s are hps btw. not mh .

Hydro shouldn't be any problem for them esp. w/ all the reef tank exp. but does require alot more attn. -n- upkeep . Keep us posted M/L .
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

I'm sure you agree it would be significant. And X-C mentions the light penetration...that's EXACTLY the issue that topping, lst etc addresses. It pretty much IS the end all in flowering.

[MaryLane]

Yep, I was the reefkeeper.

Light penetratration is indeed a big issue, especially in aquaria. Consider: a 400w MH will effectively penetrate only 24"-32" through water, and at the 30" level won't be enough for the more light demanding corals.

I understand the benefits of hydro, but at the moment I don't think I really have enough available cash to do it. A soil grow would be significantly cheaper, and I'd really prefer to put the extra money into more lumens rather than into a hydro set up.

Keeping 2000w-3000w cool is actually easy. It's all about airflow. First, air should always, always be pulled, never pushed. This includes any filter medium. If you have a carbon filter, for instance (and I will have multiple, as smell is a big concern of mine), then the fans should always pull through it. If you set up HPS lighting correctly, and the airflow is correct, the hot air should never get to the surface of whatever is being lighted. The only issue is heat from the actual radiation, and again, proper airflow can solve this. You start to run into the need for water chillers at 800w-1000w in a closed aquarium hood, but since I keep my home rather cool (68F-71F generally) and I build my own hoods, I was able to isolate the bulbs from the actual tank area with sapphire glass and with 150cfm heat was not a big issue. Anything over about 2000w really starts to require a chiller. Now, all of that unrelated garbage about lighting and reefs does have a point. My cabinet will need to be semi-stealth, so I imagine heat will be more of an issue. With that said, I still believe I can go up to 1000w and still have the ventilation to keep the cabinet between 72F and 82F. So, I'd rather put my money into a 1000w HPS with a proper flowering bulb (not sure what the spectrum is, but I'll research it and find out) than into a hydro set up.


XC, thanks for your advice! I haven't read your thread yet, but am about to as soon as I finish this post. It looks like I may try to go for a lower cabinet and focus much more heavily on training and topping (topping = FIM correct?). If I just do LST and FIM with 2 - 4 plants, is 4oz on a first grow, assuming I am conscientious about things, a realistic grow? As I said before, I am much more concerned about quality than I am quantity. I'd give up an ounce of yield before I gave up any potency. I have no interest in selling - this is entirely for myself, so as long as yield is enough to keep me and mine in smoke between harvests, I'm good to go.

Now, I have absolutely zero experience with HPS lighting. I remember running 2000w of mixed 12k and 20k MH lights shot my power bill up about $150 a month. What can I expect with a single 1000w HPS? Would a single 1000w HPS be enough to cover 2 or 4 LST'd/FIM'd plants about 25" from the top of the soil? Of course, the entire cabinet would be covered in aluminum tape or mylar (probably mylar - aluminum tape will make keeping the cabinet cool a lot harder). Unfortunately, money is a limiting factor for me, as I am helping my spouse with some very education expenses.

Hound, what exactly is garden tape? Bear in mind, I have never even grown a tomato plant before.

I'm sure I will have more questions and comments after reading XC's thread. I cannot thank you guys enough for your help so far and for any you may provide in the future. It is very much appreciated!

[MaryLane]

Ok, wow, I just checked out the log for JustASeed's grow. Just, wow!

Alright, so, I definitely need to keep on planning. Hmmmmm... let me think on this for a bit.

Thanks for the link XC!

[MaryLane]

Ok, I just measured a different part of my home, and these are the dimensions I can work with for a mostly-stealth cabinet.

36"W x 26"D x 36"H. I really think 400w - 600w HPS is going to be the maximum I can afford. It's looking like that is going to cost around $150-$250, without bulb, depending on where I get it. Any recommendations as to where and what to buy? Most of the aquarium ballasts and whatnot are way overpriced, but those are the only places I know to look. It doesn't have to be fancy, so long as it is a quality unit and utilizes a remote ballast.

Would two plants be too much or too little for this size? I'm going to go ahead and try a SCROG, maybe slight arena style.

Since this is kind of a custom box shape now I don't think I'll be able to just buy a cabinet at a hardware store. I figure I can build it out of particle board easy enough, though I have no idea how I'm going to make it look decent to be stealthy. I think anyone with half a brain who saw it and heard the fans would have an idea what was going on.

Also, I figure 400w, plus good airflow through the box itself to keep the plants healthy, plus having to overcome getting around leaves and stems and screen is going to take a lot more air than I am used to using on aquarium hoods. I think I'll plan on about 400cfm through the box. Does this sound about right?

[bejay]

scrog or sog really requires clones unless you have somewhere where you can buy them, it usually means a seperate veg and flower area for most growers.

[MaryLane]

I have access to clones, though I'd prefer seeds. Can I not germinate and veg in my main box, then pick two of the best females and kill the rest? I could then transfer to bigger pots and leave them in the same box, yes?

scrog or sog really requires clones unless you have somewhere where you can buy them, it usually means a seperate veg and flower area for most growers.

[xcrispi]

Hey M/L ,
As far as costs a 600 and 1000 are almost the same , bulbs too . I prefer EYE hortilux hps bulbs myself = enhanced blue / green spectrum for veg , yet still kix ass during flower . I don't believe in MH due to less lumens and running hotter .

I manage to cool 2 -1000w hps in cooltubes w/ a 6in. 630 cfm hurricane centr. blower . 2 1000w hps 2 blowers and dehum. running 20 on / 4 off = 180.00 a mo. on my bill - but im not in california like Weedhound w/ big elect. costs . A single 1000w. set up = prob 1/2 that to run per month .

36 -26 -36 sounds like my wife LOL . :hippy: I honestly would try for something a lil taller . I've seen 6ft tall x 30in wide x 24in. deep = c 13 pre fab'd wardrobe cabinets at IKEA , Homedepot , lowes that work great for like 100.00 . If your as tight as I am search Craigslist.com for free shit 2 . I can post a pic. of my old retired cab like this w/ a 250 hps in it for ideas on ventilation etc... I was able to cool it w/ 2 cheap ass 4in. inductor duct booster fans . 20.00 each. - but don't buy 1 of the lights likes in it w/ enclosed ballasts = they suck = you prob. already knew this by your remote ballast comments , you've been doing your homework - :thumbsup: Always draw w/ a blower - never push .

I helped someone build a 6' x 3' x 2' = c-22 cabinet last year w/ a 400w hps inside a cooltube only cooled by a 35.00 6in. 250 cfm inductor booster fan and he was able to do 3 - 5gal. dwc buckets in it and yield very well - like 3/4 lb. 1st try . <- this sounds right up your alley but in dirt not DWC .

The hobby is way way fun , almost addictive . The pursuit of perfect super killer buds that are as close to free as you can get . I've kept track w/ a cpl. of my gardens elect. , nutes , bulb depreciation , water bill , hydroton etc... My last N/L x Nev. Haze grow cost me $17.00 an oz. to produce . Im a reg. mmj user -n- will not / do not sell - but I bet it'd go for $350.00 oz. or better here in the ghetto . 17.00 sounds lots better .

Good luck -n- keep us informed
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

[Weedhound]

Isn't he something? I love that guy

X-C helped me totally rebuild my growroom and increase my yield to double and triple what I was getting so he is the design man in my book.

A couple thoughts to add.....you know this entire project does not have to be complete before you put a seed in the ground and see how it grows....adding and changing things is part of the blast of growing. If you have the true basics down you can begin if you want....there's nothing wrong with growing a few and just see what they do. It's great practice.

I personally do like the mh bulbs but X-C is right that they run hotter....not sure if that is an issue for you though. Mh for veg/ hps for flower is the norm but like X-C says your plants won't shed a single tear with the Hortilux bulb and they'll grow like beasts.

Garden tape......you can buy it at wallyword, lowes, any nursery etc.....Doesn't bite into your branches as they grow and easy to change around if necc.
Re-Usable Plant Ties

I've recently had some terrible issues with mylar and room heat and hot spots. I just took down all my mylar and painted the area with flat white and I think it keeps the room cooler....not to mention no more parts of my plant that look like I've had it out in the sun under a magnfying glass. Just some cud to chew on there. Skip any aluminum tape or foil.....will cause same issues but even worse than mylar can.

I agree that if you have to make a choice at the moment due to $$...spend them on your lighting. You can always build some sort of hydro bucket but once you've got the watts....well that's what you've got for good.

i can already tell this is going to be a fun thread. Yes ML, we're voyeurs but we're pretty harmless too.