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07-09-2007, 03:25 PM #1Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
^^^ The flying spaghetti monster again, eh? Reading about that thing always makes me hungry.
Hardcore Newbie Reviewed by Hardcore Newbie on . The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it I should start off by saying that I consider myself agnostic, as I acknowledge the possibility that there may be a higher power out there somewhere but I certainly wouldn't say I believe in a god. Now, I could write volumes about how preposterous the notion of religion is (for this discussion I will focus exclusively on the Abrahamic religions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), but the fundamental flaw I referred to in the thread title revolves around one question for you religious Rating: 5
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07-09-2007, 04:31 PM #2Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by Coelho
I'm sure the people who are sceptical of their parent's scientology teachings will.... whatever that religion has as a negative (unsolved problems in past lives to milk you of your money), and the muslim extremist children will go to hell for not being sceptical about blowing themselves up for virgins. Not all parents can be right about everything. If parents were right about everything they wouldn't tell us about Santa and the easter Bunny.
But yeah, you're analogy is perfect! The fact that you have a little lickey smiley face in regards to your belief that your fellow man will be tortured in hell simply for a deity choice is no reason for concern, hey, but at least you think you're "right".
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07-09-2007, 08:34 PM #3Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
everybody has their own opinions about their own religiouns and beliefs there is no uniform religious where everybody belelives the exact same thing and in the same way your subjecting all atheism to be that it is the denial of god untill he can be proven when the definition of atheisn with simply the denial of god
take it as you will
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07-09-2007, 10:46 PM #4OPMember
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by hempotalogist
Originally Posted by hempotalogist
Anyway, the main point of my original post was that if the Christian God were as loving and forgiving as described, it would be paradoxical for him to send Ghandi, let's say, to Hell, yet according to the Bible he would do just that. Even though Ghandi lived as purely and altruistically as anyone, he did not believe that Christ had a son named Jesus who died for our sins etc., so he would be forced to suffer eternally.
The bottom line is that I never really get an answer when I ask someone why they believe in one religion as opposed to another. The response is usually something along the lines of "just because." I think it's clear that the real reason is always either familial pressure or because they want to believe that a certain religion speaks the truth (which, as I stated in my original post, is not a valid reason for believing that one set of fairy tales is true and another is false, just like I don't believe that I'll win the lottery if I buy a ticket just because I want it to happen). That being said, I truly believe that EVERY member of any religion which promises eternal paradise in the afterlife in exchange for obedience, on some level, knows that they really have no clue how this universe came to be and has made the conscious decision to deny any possibility that they're wrong about their faith just so they can live easier "knowing" they're going to heaven.
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07-09-2007, 10:54 PM #5Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
There Is No God
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word ''elephant'' includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?(stumble.com)
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07-10-2007, 01:47 AM #6Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Quincyboy:
Religion serves one purpose and one purpose only, to explain the unexplainable, that is how the first religions were started and why they were mostly polytheistic.
as the human mind expanded and began to explain these things religions became more and more hard to refute and as more and more people began to believe in certain religions other people saw the opportunity to use this to their own gains (this is where all the politics the apparently forms the basis of every religion comes in)
Blind faith is one of the most important aspects of the major Abrahamic religions but even though you wouldnâ??t like to admit it is also a major aspect of atheism
the first religions had very abstract ideas to explain everyday forces like the sun rising but as human knowledge progressed, these ideas became explained by science but there a certain things that will never be explainable such as creation that will always leave room for a god, without an explanation of somthing there will always be an abstract idea not based on proof to explain it some may be rediculous and other may be more believable
There is a mystery, I have to admit. We try to understand nature and we ask questions and we get answers and then we ask follow-up questions. "Why is that true?" Ultimately, we hope to come to a set of elegant physical principles that describe everything and when we have it, the mystery will still be there because we will have to ask, "Why is it that theory and not some other theory?" One answer is the regularity imposed on it by a spirit, a designer, but that doesn't answer anything. Then you have to say, "Why is the designer like that?" Either by a designer you have something in particular in mindâ??a god who is benevolent, jealous, or humorousâ??whatever!â??or you have nothing in mind and then let's not talk about it. If you have something in mind, then the question arises, "Why is that true?" So, I don't see that having a designer puts us at rest. I think we are permanently in the tragic position of not being able to understand at the deepest possible level why things are the way they are, and you just have to live with that. But saying it's a designer doesn't settle it, doesn't help.
johneg:
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word ''elephant'' includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?"
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07-10-2007, 05:32 AM #7Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
. I just did see that i could twist the meaning of that citation, and could not resist to doing so...
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07-10-2007, 06:40 AM #8Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Oneironaut, as always, does an amazingly articulate job of explaining how and why people get religion and how religions are arbitrary belief systems, which I wholly agree with.
The fundamental flaw I personally see with religion is very simple. It's belief in the supernatural, and I don't believe in the supernatural.[SIZE=\"4\"]\"That best portion of a good man\'s life: his little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and love.\"[/SIZE]
[align=center]William Wordsworth, English poet (1770 - 1850)[/align]
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07-10-2007, 07:01 AM #9Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
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07-10-2007, 03:25 PM #10Senior Member
The fundamental flaw in religion as I see it
Originally Posted by Coelho
But it's not a good analogy
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