Do you support a war against IRAN?

[epxroot]

I don't think you are wrong about the current economic state. I predicted a market crash in 5-10 years for those very reasons you listed. Read my first post again. I mention those same points. What we disagree on is whether war is an effective economic stimulus.

But what do you think CEOs do with their money? Stash it under a mattress? Realistically, they invest it, start new ventures, which creates new jobs. CEOs are definitely getting overpaid, but they don't just suddenly decide "I made enough money." They strive to make more money. One way or another, they're being pumped back into the economy whether it's through securities, or paying for services

Take a look at the Dow Jones average. Notice how it declined until precisely March 2003. Then the trend start an incline. As I mentioned earlier, it's propped up artificially through the war. But my point is what goes up must come down. The cost for this stimulus is major loss of purchasing power, and the weakening of the dollar We eventually have to pay for it. And presently the problem.

I'm not saying it'll solve our problems to go into Iran the next day, but if the economy goes into a freefall, it's can be an effective economic stimulus if well-managed.

If I ruled America, I'd have a very fiscally responsible budget, cut the size of the government, especially defense, and wasteful social programs. I'd run America very much like Switzerland and not involve war.

The problem is America is too deep in shit trying to police the world. We are now engaging in an economic battle with emerging economic powerhouses: EU, China, Russia, and India. All of them have the potential to overtake America.

Cheers mate!! I see where I was misguided by your post, well not misguided, but misunderstood what you were saying. I was thinking you were saying that the war would fix our current economic problem, rather than just being a band-aid fix. I see also by your post that we do have a lot of the same ideas. :rastasmoke:

[epxroot]

Palerider--I know you are smart (because you have told us so over and over again), so I am sure your utter lack of reason and blind faith in America is not true hypocrisy, but an accidental hypocrisy born from your uncontrolled Religious Nationalism--Christianity/U.S.A. I know you are a true American, for you place Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan in the same sentence as if they were one big happy family with a single vision.
I am an American too, but I am not proud of it. I appreciate its good points, and cry myself to sleep over its ugliness. Of course, American is the best place to live if you want something. But try to think about what is required from the rest of the world in order to maintain our standards of living. There would be no America without the third world, world poverty/famine, and wars. Pride is a no-no in every religion known to man.
It seems that you are very upset about 911--a terrible tragedy of course--but it does not come close to the decimation unleashed on her previous inhabitants and the captives of the middle passage that built her, the nukes over Japan, or the bombing of Dresden, or the collateral damage in Iraq (all of it was collateral damage)...even that the American government sponsored tobacco companies unleash more death and dismemberment upon their own citizenry as to make a grown man cry.
Of course, we are all sickened by 911, but America has a deal with Saudi Arabia--we keep getting cheepish oil, and they will not be fucked with over their terrorism. That is the game. There is an understanding. So while I do not believe the U.S. had a direct role in the 911 attack, they sure as hell are culpable. A machine has many parts, and each part is equally responsible for the actions the machine carries out.
I understand that it is easier to lay blame, when the terrorist is something far off, but the one and only true champion of Terrorism of all time is the Western Economic Machine. How can I, as an American, say this? I just live here, man. I was born here without my permission, and I must live with the hand I was dealt, but that does not mean I have to love everything that happens in America, or because of America. America. America. America. America. America. America. Big woop! I am supposed to worship a flag and a government that pisses on its own people and constitution (sounds like some kind of a third world thing)? What is this part of America that is so wonderful? Mom? Apple pie? Picnics? Baseball? That is all advertising, and we deserve to be punished for only wanting such a plastic lifestyle. Get out of that loop and be a person, Palerider. Do not let yourself be branded. America, the brave has been bought and sold. The America you speak of does not exist; it never did. America, the corporation, does not care about spreading freedom anymore. We only care about security.

What was the original question?...oh yes: No War in Iran! Iran is not a threat, fraidy cats! Russia was never even a threat. The cold war was a hoax. All of these fear campaigns are always driven by the global economic control mechanism. America is just going to have to get poorer for the health of the world, and stop scrambling for the wealth. We do not deserve a television in every room, and a car for every family member. We have been taking more than we deserve for centuries, and there is no legitimate argument as to why we deserve it over anybody else.

Death count 911--3000

[align=center] Annual Causes of Death in the United States 2000


[/align]
[align=center] Tobacco 435,000 Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000 Alcohol 85,000 Microbial Agents 75,000 Toxic Agents 55,000 Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347 Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000 Suicide 30,622 Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000 Homicide 20,308 Sexual Behaviors 20,000 All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000 , 5 Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600 Marijuana 0
[/align]

Are we going to war over death, or is it ideology? From looking at the numbers, it seems that Blackwater "contractors" (Tr. Mercenaries) should be kicking in the doors of tobacco executives. Bunker busters should be dropped on the mansions of fast food executives. We should be offering $1,000,000 rewards for the recovery of known pharmaceutical executives who are using the proceeds from selling their prescription poisons to finance global terrorism (the continued eradication of natural remedies and their support of the war on drugs which imprisons some of our best minds)...and these microbial agents...What kind of Jihad is that? So no, I do not support any more bullshit fucking wars sketched up on cocktail napkins by special interest think tanks, fake Texans, and blind patriots to the scripted American dream!!

Wow, that was beautifully said. You pretty much wrapped my thoughts up from the last 10 or 15yrs and placed them in this nice post. Cheers to you Tea Party!!

[Friend Indeed]

I love how the U.S can openly possess nuclear technology, but no one else is allowed to. The Iranian government has repeatedly made compromise offers to place strict limits on its nuclear program beyond what the Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Additional Protocol legally require of Iran, in order to ensure that the program cannot be secretly diverted to the manufacture of weapons. As for the intel that the US has provided to the United Nations IAEA about Iran's nuclear program, most of it has proven to be inaccurate, and none of it has led to significant discoveries in Iran.

The US Nuclear Posture Review which was made public for any citizen in the world to read envisioned the use of nuclear weapons on a first strike basis, even against non-nuclear armed states. The US has repeatedly refused to rule out nuclear first strikes against non-nuclear opponents. This policy is in clear violation of the US Negetive Security Assurance, which pledged not to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear members of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) of which Iran is a part of. So if the US doesnt want to abide by the rules, why should anyone else have to? So the current administration's stance in the world playground (IMO) is either you become our bitch, or we'll nuke you. I suppose the one good thing that has come from this "war on terror" is that I can now buy cheap goods from the states!

I am so amused by people who think that since the U.S. has nuclear weapon capabilities that any and all countries should be allowed to have them as well. This is 1st grade logic, plain & simple. Countries run by dictators should NOT be allowed to have nuclear programs that be used for weapons of mass distruction. Period. It's unfortunate that Canadians are so obsessed with U.S. politics that that they are unable to hold their own government reponsible for border security and the security of North America.

The U.S. government has alot wrong with it, but unless other countries are willing to do their part, then their concerns are pretty much irrelevant as to what we need to do do keep ourselves safe.

:1baa:

[thcbongman]

Cheers mate!! I see where I was misguided by your post, well not misguided, but misunderstood what you were saying. I was thinking you were saying that the war would fix our current economic problem, rather than just being a band-aid fix. I see also by your post that we do have a lot of the same ideas. :rastasmoke:

Cheers! :thumbsup:

I thought it was a good level-headed debate. A bit of miscommunication, but it was a fun exercise!

[psychocat]

I am so amused by people who think that since the U.S. has nuclear weapon capabilities that any and all countries should be allowed to have them as well. This is 1st grade logic, plain & simple. Countries run by dictators should NOT be allowed to have nuclear programs that be used for weapons of mass distruction. Period. It's unfortunate that Canadians are so obsessed with U.S. politics that that they are unable to hold their own government reponsible for border security and the security of North America.

The U.S. government has alot wrong with it, but unless other countries are willing to do their part, then their concerns are pretty much irrelevant as to what we need to do do keep ourselves safe.

:1baa:

So it's only okay to dictate what others may do if it's America doing the dictating ?
What Canada has to do with it is beyond me ? Please elaborate.
The US goverment is the biggest risk to world peace since Hitler.
How hypocritical is it to tell everyone else to disarm whilst you are arming yourself to the teeth ?

[BathingApes]

Ya, let's just let Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong-Il get some nukes because we know they'll play nice right? It's not like he's ever threatened to wipe any other country off the face of the Earth right?

You people amaze me. I know America isn't perfect but I know we're the good guys. Someday all you anti-American fucks will get your wish, and when there's total chaos and dictators everywhere have nuclear capabilities and the world's a mess you'll all be crying about how America didn't come save ya.

I can not see how there will ever be peace. There NEVER will be. Not until the fucking end of the world will this shit stop. Fact is America would do its self some fucking good if it got out of middle east and spent all the trillions of dollars your government has invested in ridiculous defence measures on improving standard of living, education, poverty, and racism. Never ever going to happen of course, cause now we're in too deep.. so forget that..

With all your defence you have, there is no need to use it on Iran. Do you actually think they will nuke you? Seriously?! They aren't fucking idiots. If Iran nuked America that would be the end of Iran and half of the middle east - they just wouldn't do that. It makes me so fucking mad that you actually have that baboon of a man the LEADER OF YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY. HOW THE FUCK DID THAT ONE HAPPEN?!?!? The most powerful man in the world - an idiot! HOW?!?!? For those who would tell me to shut up because "I dont live in the USA," - I would say this; I live in the UK where our government follows yours with everything you do. Why isn't he impeached? I read somewhere that 70% of the USA population want the troops home. WHY THE FUCK ARENT THEY HOME THEN?! The government knows best huh I guess.

[quaz808]

Another war huh?? yea great Idea
Who is going to fight it? You ? Who will pay for it? Why?
Just because a country wants to produce its own energy?

"Serious science has been known to the general public for say 300 years.
There's a lot of mental evolution to come before we loose the ghosts and gremlins built into our minds."


How to make world peace? Rid the world of religion.No use for it anymore,everyone knows that the world isn't flat now a days.

[Markass]

It's unfortunate that Canadians are so obsessed with U.S. politics that that they are unable to hold their own government reponsible for border security and the security of North America.



:1baa:

okay, border security...lmao, that's like right next to us, why don't we help them improve whatever's wrong with their border, instead of a stupid fucking war in Iraq?

[Friend Indeed]

okay, border security...lmao, that's like right next to us, why don't we help them improve whatever's wrong with their border, instead of a stupid fucking war in Iraq?

Um......when/where did I state that the war with Iraq was correct?
I thought we were discussing nuclear capabilities.

What exactly is YOUR country doing about the security of North America? Why should U.S. taxpayers help you people w/your border weakness? Use your own tax dollars!! I'm already paying for a WAR I don't agree with. Why should we help you with your problems? Why should we help YOU with anything?

By the way, how many AlQueda camps are you up to now in Canada?

I don't work 2 jobs to help YOUR government do what is right.
Hold YOUR governemnt responsible!!!!!

And, regarding your previous quote regarding the U.S. being the worst dictatorship since Hitler in Nazi Germany: How ignorant. You should be embarrassed. Truly.

Are you really THAT uneducated? Have you ever opened a history book? What are you people learning in Canada?! Any 1st grader can google "dictatorship" to learn that the U.S. is nothing close.

You ditched classes alot in high school didn't you?

[FreshNugz]

First of all, MArkass isn't Canadian..or at least didn't say it. Next,
Before you state that Canada has a weak border, and that we need help from YOU, or need to "protect the continent" for you...fucking do your research bud.

We had one cell. They were training here. And then they were ALL ARRESTED!!!!!!!
We caught that...how the hell do we need help??
It's funny how you say "our border weakness". That's the most ridiculous argument ever.
And if you argue that terrorists are coming through the border to your country, that is a US customs problem, not ours! The guys who we caught here were canadian citizens, who were BORN HERE so how would our border have anything to do with it?? Before you call people uneducated and ignorant, make sure your argument isn't even more ludacris than theirs, which it clearly is.
Nobody asked you to use your tax dollars to help us, we don't need your fucking help man. What we need is to not be too closely associated with you guys so we can keep our asses un-attacked!