"Sicko", Moores best yet.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Actually I believe that welfare should be eliminated

Ah yes, let the destitute adopot a life of total poverty and desperation so they can turn to crime and have even more problems for the judicial system and middle-class to deal with.

and the education system is completely screwed up.

Can't disagree with you there. I actually rather like going to a private christian school in grade 7 (albeit I was a closet agnostic), but you have to have some national standards too. I can't say I've seen a reasonably good education system, private or social, that has impressed me.

And socialism doesn't work. People begin to realize that they dont have to work to get the same damn thing that the working people do. Why work when you can get it for free? Not everyone has a good work ethic.

See there you go again taking it to extremes. Nobody here is talking about extreme communist/stalinist socialism, I was talking about moderate socialism in the areas where it's needed. I don't know, have you been told since birth that all socialism means equality for all in every sense? The socialism here in Canada, and even that which exists in America, doesn't make everybody equal. Socialism is responsible for the welfare system, and yes people don't have to work on it, and they're also poor as hell. Nobody living off social supports is "getting the same damn thing" as you put it, that's just rediculous. It's a choice of barely getting by on subsidies, or making something of yourself and living it up in the middle-class life where you can have new cars, big-screen TV's, Ipods, and vacations to the Bahama's.

Honestly, it's no wonder Americans think socialism is such a dirty word, they all think it's COMMUNISM or nothing.

Gandalf_The_Grey Reviewed by Gandalf_The_Grey on 06-27-2007. "Sicko", Moores best yet. SiCKO Is Michael Moore's Best and Most Powerful Documentary By David Corn, TheNation.com. Posted June 23, 2007. Michael Moore's new movie is a dead-on dissection of America's sick healthcare system. Funny, sad and moving, it's the best of his films. In 1971, Edgar Kaiser, the son of the founder of Kaiser Permanente, one of the first big HMOs, went to see John Ehrlichman, a top aide to President Nixon, to lobby the Nixon White House to pass legislation that would expand the market for Rating: 5

[medicinal]

since when have the rich ever funded any government give away in this country. once again the middle class will be hit with huge tax hikes to fund another mismanaged government program. the very people who will scrimp and save to be able to afford something better than the substandard government care that will be offered, will also be paying for the bureaucracy created to run a system doomed to failure.

Why has it worked so well in europe, canada and 25+ other countries. The managerial cost of running the medicare program is 3%, while the managerial cost of running HMOs is 25-35%, Plus some asshole CEO gets millions to sit on his ass and cut care and increase co-pay. HMOs are the devils health care plan.

[Sugarblaster]

Who has seen this movie and how? Did you download it or have an promotional copy? One of my friends used to get movies before they were released, copies intended for media to pre screen and review and stuff but not in the last year or so.

i got mine from Pirate Bay, go google it.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

i got mine from Pirate Bay, go google it.

I read a notification on Isohunt a few months back that PirateBay was raded by federal authorities. But then I never saw it disappear, so......:wtf:

[Sugarblaster]

I read a notification on Isohunt a few months back that PirateBay was raded by federal authorities. But then I never saw it disappear, so......:wtf:

supposivly they were raided, but the people who have organized Pirate Bay keep back ups in different countries it's fully operational and Switzerland actually has a political party called The Pirate Party to legalize pirating material and what not.

[ceecee79]

I am very anxious to see this movie. As a former employee of United HealthCare, I am well aware of how screwed the insurance industry is. We (as new employees) were told that doctors contracted with United HealthCare received "bonuses" for not sending patients for expensive tests, such as MRI's and CT scans. If you need one of these tests, your best bet is to go early in the year, so your doctor will still have an allowance of tests available and will not be jepordizing their bonus. Also, I could never understand how United HealthCare paid $3.25 for a strep throat culture, when an average person without any medical insurance will pay between $40-$80 for the exact same test. (at least around here, in NC) They call it contracted rates, and you can see these on your EOB's. They usually start with a billed amount, which is reduced to the contracted rate, which insured people pay a portion of. This applies for all procedures, so on a larger scale, an uninsured person may pay $1000-$1500 for a MRI, and insurance companies get off with paying a fraction of it. I think this practice should be illegal, and everyone should be billed the exact same rate, whether insured or not. Many like to refer to the US as "the best country in the world" but we have people in ER's being walked over and ignored to the point of death. (King Harbor Hospital, in LA) When my sister had meningitis, (also life threatening) she had to wait over 8 HOURS to be seen in a small town hospital. There could not have been so many emergencies to warrant such a long wait. A friend of mine's spouse, who is from Germany, recently flew there to have dental procedures done, as it cost him less for the procedure there, and his international plane ticket than it would have to have it done here. This is just past the point of ridiculous. If other countries can have universal healthcare, I just don't see how or why it can not be done here. I hear congress has a great health care plan--do I have to run for office to get some good coverage? This is why I support Barack Obama, as I think he has the best ideas about how to make sure everyone has medical coverage. The issue goes even deeper when you have people that actually do have a medical insurance plan, but the plan is very expensive, and they don't even have good coverage. It pained me to have to tell people that they could not have a life saving treatment because it was not covered in their plan, and their state did not legally mandate that it be covered. Ironically, Texas is the best state for medical coverage. United HealthCare was frequently annoyed by some new bill that passed there, which required them to pay for some treatment they did not want to. In my opinion, the whole medical industry is sick, and in need of more than antibiotics to cure it.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

supposivly they were raided, but the people who have organized Pirate Bay keep back ups in different countries it's fully operational and Switzerland actually has a political party called The Pirate Party to legalize pirating material and what not.

LOL, that's awsome! Thankfully here in Canada though, while pirating is illegal, downloading pirated stuff is 100% legal.

[Sugarblaster]

ceecee79:"This is just past the point of ridiculous. If other countries can have universal healthcare, I just don't see how or why it can not be done here. I hear congress has a great health care plan--do I have to run for office to get some good coverage?"

it is, and moore's movie confronts America's fear for socialist ideas in the film (just as he did with that little diddy in Bowling), it was funny and also a point of the finger to the fear mongers. Damn cold war scared us away from socialist ideas, it has been the biggest weapon for the Far Right politicians, conservative talk shows, and conservative news shows (you know the one) to keep universal healthcare out of our minds and to get the insurance companies so much money.

the scene with Nixon talking to one of his advisors sickens me. Nixon was a crook since day 1.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Damn cold war scared us away from socialist ideas....

no, what scares us away from socialist ideas is common sense.

time and again our government has proven itself to be totally unresponsive to the needs of the people. big business, special interest groups, international pressures and the constant quest for re-election all come before the welfare of the nation's citizens. our elected officials are forever embroiling us in international conflicts, entangling us in questionable foreign involvements and inflicting nonsensical regulations on us designed to curtail the freedoms of a supposedly free people. all without the slightest concern for the desires of those who elected them and these are the very thieves and swindlers that a socialist system would give even more power to.

unlike the utopian concepts of communism which give the power directly to the people, socialist ideology filters that power through the state and no government has ever willingly given up a single iota of its power. graft, corruption and waste come all too easily under a socialist system and we have enough of those already. next time you decide to preach the joys of socialism, ask yourself how much you can really trust those in power and then ask yourself how much more power you would be willing to hand over to such fools.

[Sugarblaster]

no, what scares us away from socialist ideas is common sense.

time and again our government has proven itself to be totally unresponsive to the needs of the people. big business, special interest groups, international pressures and the constant quest for re-election all come before the welfare of the nation's citizens. our elected officials are forever embroiling us in international conflicts, entangling us in questionable foreign involvements and inflicting nonsensical regulations on us designed to curtail the freedoms of a supposedly free people. all without the slightest concern for the desires of those who elected them and these are the very thieves and swindlers that a socialist system would give even more power to.

unlike the utopian concepts of communism which give the power directly to the people, socialist ideology filters that power through the state and no government has ever willingly given up a single iota of its power. graft, corruption and waste come all too easily under a socialist system and we have enough of those already. next time you decide to preach the joys of socialism, ask yourself how much you can really trust those in power and then ask yourself how much more power you would be willing to hand over to such fools.

i don't preach socialism as a whole, i've thought long and hard about what i want out of my government and i think it's something everyone should do before they gain their right to vote.

I want universal healthcare, a fair taxation system to fund that, and everything else is all in the constitution. And the constitution is anything but socialistic, so does that make me a Socialist? Am I full blown Socialism patriot? i think not.

How much power do American people have any way? It's all in the hands of corporations. And corporations are the hands to the puppets in Washington D.C.

Our government is anything but socialist yet they share power with the corporations and old rich away from the rest of us. So the side your defending isn't any better. Thats why there is moderation, take the best of both worlds, they can all coexist. Being ignorant and totally blowing things off won't get you anywhere, listen to both sides and take each part that can appeal to you and everyone else. Being one sided won't get anyone anywhere.

Our government is unresponsive because it's structured to be unresponsive to the people, especially with the people in there now. What about other countries? they seem very responsive to their people's needs. Moore brings this up, he criticizes Americans for being afraid of the government. It shouldn't be that way, the government should be afraid of us! Why are we letting the government control us when it's WRITTEN on our Constitution, our freaking BIRTH CERTIFICATE as a country that WE THE PEOPLE have given our guidelines to what our government is to provide us. The government today is way out of line. WHAT SAY YE TO THAT?