A few leaf issues - Lots of pictures =]

[HeadyDready]

So, i topped two of my closet plants about a week ago, and now some of thier lower leaves are looking not so good.. I'm pretty sure i dont have any major bug problems, except quite a lot of fungus knats, but i researched all that and i'm lessing the water, but which is really best -neem oil, dimitocus earth, gnatcontrol, and wich is easiest to get and cheapest? WHich is best?! Anywho, back to the plant issues..
I'm attaching a few pictures of the two plants, and a close up of the questionable leaves.. The first looks like splotchy patches of brownish, dried out looking sections on leaves, mostly on the lower leaves, but a few spots all around. The tips of the leaves are starting to twist, curl over.. and overall looks droopy. There are also shades of very dark green, and i'm thinking they need some N?
The second, has yellowing leaves at the bottom, with lots of little brown specks.. They dont seem to have any bumps, or bugs attached to the bottom of the leaves.. so i dunno.
Most of the plants are looking really good - these two were the biggest, so i topped them first, and the only ones who seem to be having issues. I havn't used any fertilizer yet, but i have some deoderized fish emulision which i'm thinking about using soon.
So.. tell me what you think! Any imput is good..
Thanks everyone!
Peace,
Dready

HeadyDready Reviewed by HeadyDready on 06-26-2007. A few leaf issues - Lots of pictures =] So, i topped two of my closet plants about a week ago, and now some of thier lower leaves are looking not so good.. I'm pretty sure i dont have any major bug problems, except quite a lot of fungus knats, but i researched all that and i'm lessing the water, but which is really best -neem oil, dimitocus earth, gnatcontrol, and wich is easiest to get and cheapest? WHich is best?! Anywho, back to the plant issues.. I'm attaching a few pictures of the two plants, and a close up of the questionable Rating: 5

[stinkyattic]

Your soil frightens me. What, exactly, is that?
It is KILLING your plants!
Unless that is some type of coco I haven't seen yet, in which case you need to get going on calmag plus right away.
If it isn't coco, you are going to have to repot and get as much soil off the roots as possible in the process.
Check the runoff pH. I'm leaning towards pH being WAY out of range causing those lockout symptoms.

[HeadyDready]

Its miricle grow's all organic soil, thought it would be good and natural..
I'm also a first time grower, so i'm pretty new at all this..
What is calmag plus? and i've never actually checked my PH levels before..
I m really not looking to make the BEST plants, so i havn't been overly concerned about all the exact nutients at the right times.. or the Ph levels, but should I? Can they still grow to be decent plants without all that? Or do yhou think there going to die if i leave them in this soil..?
What kind of PH tester can i get and where, and what solutions are best for making the PH levels correct again?
Thanks so much for the help, Stinky! And if anyone else has any other ideas, let me know
=]

[stinkyattic]

hm... that soil should not be THAT bad! Maybe a little 'hot' but not outrageous.
Of course the risk with any pre-ferted soil is that you can get salts building up and causing that sort of lock-out.
In your case I'll bet the problem can be fixed with a good flush.
Flush with 3x the container volume of water, then a final flush with a solution of your grow fert at 1/4-1/2 strength to replace lost nutrients that 'went out with the bathwater'.
pH is pretty important and that is why if you don't want to fiddle with it, you can start with a buffered medium like the compost that I use- it is VERY stable in the high 6's no matter what you do to it fert wise, lol! compost is great because it has organic acids in it, which chemically have buffering properties. Humic acid is a big one and your plants love it. It keeps the soil in the correct range to maximize uptake of micronutrients, which is the problem that you are seeing with your plant- a micro lockout.
Oh and make sure your fertilizer is 'complete'- not jsut npk but all the other good stuff too.

[HeadyDready]

Oh good =]
I'm glad a good flush will help, instead of having to repot everything..
I have some Alaska deoderized fish emulsion, its 5-1-1.. organic and nice..
It says it has a number of metals in it, but no mention of micro fertilizers..
I dunno, i bet its all good stuff.. what do you know about this fishy stuff?
Or.. i have a generic bottle of miricle grow all purpose plant food.. 12-4-8
looks like it has the same metals and stuff.. I havn't used any fert yet, because i killed my last little seedlings with too much fert too early.. oops..
And I dont want chemical crap buds.. so i should probly aviod the miricle grow..? What do you think?

And, i know using tap water to water plants is bad.. but you think i could get away with it for the flushes?
And, i have a few little plants growing in this soil.. these are the only two looking like they have deficancies.. but you think i should flush them all anyway?
Thanks again for all the very helpful information.
Your the best :P

[stinkyattic]

I think tap water is usually fine for soil growers. I use it. Mine runs at 7.0 but I add soil syrup to it for flushing (mmm humic acid! ) and anyway 7 for flush water isn't outrageous; the final flush with ferts is the important one.
I like that Alaska stuff. But unless you want to get into a big ol' organic saga... building up your fert regime with organics and tryin gto puzzle them all together, please do yourself a favor and invest in a normal fert like the ones botanicare makes, which are great and a good value. or if you can find cornucopia, that's what i've been using in veg: their bloom formula which is LOADED with good micros, plus -guess what!- Alaska fish glop. Adn the ladies are happy. They said so.
The metals ARE the micros mtw. The only thing I'd worry about is the distinct possibility of OD-ing on Nitrogen if you rely on fish fert for your veg nute...
I'd flush all the plants next time they look thirsty. If they are all in the same soil, they are undergoing the same stresses. Just some of them may be hardier.

[HeadyDready]

Thank you so much Stinky! You seem to be the one who's always here helping people out.. really telling people how it is, and what to do, and i'm sure everyone appriciates it, so.. thank you.. lol.
Oh, one last little thing.. the gnat problem..
Will flushing promote/kill/ do nothing to them? and.. honestly whats the best way of getting rid of them? Because.. its getting pretty bad..and i need to take care of it soon.
thanks

[HeadyDready]

And.. those bottom leaves seem to be getting worse..
Should one cut dying leaves off? Or will they be able to heal themselves?

[stinkyattic]

oh yeah the bugs...
lets see... everyone raves about the no-pest strips. i have never seen or used one but they have a great rep.
diatomaceous earth is great but when it gets wet it loses effectiveness.
pyrethrin is the bomb0diggity and i use pyr bombs when my thrips get too sassy.
neem is great for protection against mites and fungal disease but since fungus gnats are more of an annoyance than a danger, i would not expect neem to really change things.
to get rid of fungus gnats part of your job is drying out your area- like, i see that you are growing in the cute pots that are all decorative n shit.. i bet they have built-in catch trays? constant damp= hiding place and breeding ground for fungus gnats. lose the trays, lose the gnats.
just some suggestions... that's what Im here for ! happy growin'

[rhizome]

Fungus gnats require a medium that never dries out in order to reproduce.
If you can let the media get really dry between waterings, you should be able to get them under control.

Yellow sticky cards way down by the soil will also help. So will physical barriers ( ie a paper plate) preventing adults from burrowing into the media to breed.

Worst comes to worst- your hardware store/ Home Depot will have " pond donuts", which are used to prevent mosquitos from breeding in backyard pools. The active ingrediant is Bacillus Thurengensis ( isreali), or BTi. ( As opposed to Bacillus Thurengensis (kurstaki), which is the one commonly used to control catapillars on field crops.)
BT is a bacteria which produces a toxin. The action of this toxin is to radically alter the pH of the insects digestive tract. Basically, unless your digestive plumbing is based on an extremely alkaline envionment, BT is harmless. As a mammal, your digestion is acid-based, so it's non-toxic. If ya want, I'll eat some.

The differant strains of BT are effective against differant pests. For fungus gnats, you want BTi.

One of those pond donuts is about a billion times more than you need, so crumble a little bit off, dissolve it, and water it in. Two donuts in a package oughtta last you a lifetime. 'Bout $10 US. I don't know of a cheaper way to buy it.

I generally find the Miracle grow products to be a little too hot for young plants. I suspect that you're looking at a micro lockout due to either pH issues or macro overdose- give 'em a good flush, flush 'em again, and then let those poor girls dry out- their toes are getting all wrinkely!