Tom needs your help

[TheGreenFog]

I KNOW THIS IS LONG, BUT PLEASE READ IT AND POST YOUR OPINION. Thanks.

So, this friend of mine came to smoke with me and while we were talking, he expressed a dilemma he is having in his relationship. He asked me what I thought he should do, but I really don't know what to tell him, so I though I would be able to get a wide range of answers from here and go pawn them off as my own...lol j/k about that last part.

Anyway, so this friend of mine, we'll call him Tom. He has a child. He has been with his girlfriend (who has 2 kids) for 1.5 years. Tom's dilemma is this. He loves his girlfriend. They are totally compatible (i.e. same type of career, children, maturity and intelligence level, etc).

The thing is that back when Tom and his girlfriend had been dating about 7 months or so, she started talking about marriage. Now Tom had made it clear in the beginning of the relationship that he was not partial to being married again due to a sour first marriage and a lousy divorce. He told her that he was not ready yet and that he'd rather her just enjoy being a couple for a while instead of rushing ahead. She stayed with him.

Tom and his gf moved in together to an apartment, with their children and all...she was first against this because she thought that they should be married, yet because she loved him, she sacrificed this want and moved in anyway.

Every time she watched a movie with a couple or a family, she would be sad. Tom would of course want to know why she was sad, so she told him that she didn't know why they couldn't just be married, since they were living that way pretty much anyway. This happened often, so Tom felt she was always bringing up the marriage issue and he was not ready. This would cause them to argue frequently. She said that if she was married that she would not have anything else to argue about.

A month or two went by, and Tom wanted to buy a house. This brought up the marriage situation again and things again got sticky. She still wanted what she wanted and she was not ready to go into a house with someone she was not married to. Tom was not ready yet.

I would also like to add on a side note that Tom had hurt her on a couple occasions during their relationship by talking to other women. He never actually slept with anyone from what he told me, but since he hid it from her, he did enough to hurt her and to make her consider leaving him. She stayed anyway...but I think this might have contributed to any future mistrust. She thought that he would have to be more accountable for himself if they were married. She also wanted the respect of being a wife instead of a "girlfriend." She thinks that maybe he needs to spend some time being single and "sow his wild oats" to get any of that out of his system and then he might be ready for marriage.


SO, they have broken up...she moved out and he says he doesn't know what to do. He loves her and her kids, but he said that he felt pressured throughout most of the relationship, and that he never really got a chance to "feel" it. The only way for him to get her back is to ask her to marry him. What should he do? He's a good friend/father/person and I feel bad for him because he's usually a pretty happy guy but he's been sulking around lately, so I hope I can help him. Whew...that was a lot to type. He'll owe me one.


What should Tom do?




The Fog :rastasmoke:

TheGreenFog Reviewed by TheGreenFog on 06-21-2007. Tom needs your help I KNOW THIS IS LONG, BUT PLEASE READ IT AND POST YOUR OPINION. Thanks. :) So, this friend of mine came to smoke with me and while we were talking, he expressed a dilemma he is having in his relationship. He asked me what I thought he should do, but I really don't know what to tell him, so I though I would be able to get a wide range of answers from here and go pawn them off as my own...lol j/k about that last part. Anyway, so this friend of mine, we'll call him Tom. He has a child. He Rating: 5

[beachguy in thongs]

If he wants to see her again, tell him to make an excuse up. Well, he does, so tell him to make an excuse up so she can see him, again.

Or, tell him to marry her, and, look after her kids as they were his own.

[Skink]

Marry with a prenup... sounds like a gold digger to me...

[Weedhound]

How old are these people?

[stinkyattic]

Oh man f[r]oggy I feel for the dude. What a shitty situation.
HEre's what struck me out of your post:

Tom felt she was always bringing up the marriage issue ....This would cause them to argue frequently. She said that if she was married that she would not have anything else to argue about.

That's quite frankly BS because there are ALWAYS things to argue about in a relationship, if a part of a couple's poor communication is arguments.
That isn't going to change until the communication changes. Only the topic of the arguments will change.

A month or two went by, and Tom wanted to buy a house. .....she was not ready to go into a house with someone she was not married to. Tom was not ready yet.

The house thing- been there, and it pretty much put the nail in the coffin of THAT relationship! I want to be married for legal reasons when I buy a house with a partner- and I asked myself, am I ready to marry this guy? the answer was no... and then the question was, will I ever? Nope! End of story.

.... Tom had hurt her on a couple occasions during their relationship by talking to other women. .....he did enough to hurt her and to make her consider leaving him. She stayed anyway.......She also wanted the respect of being a wife instead of a "girlfriend."

Man I can see where she is coming from- I get that feeling too, that once you get to a certain age it seems silly talking about your boyfriend, lol! BUT an educated and logical woman should see that the RESPECT bit is kind of Victorian... we should be over that by now! And if the title means that much, you have to ask WHY? Labels can be used to compensate for insecurity... does she need to feel validated by the title of 'wife'?
Also 'talking to other women'... !!! f'real?
And the last bit of this... the combination of the insecurity and the need for a title... by labelling Tom as her husband, and putting that ring on his finger, I would HOPE she isn't trying to essentially piss on the fire hydrant and claim ownership of him in a visible way that would make him less able to talk with other women (although it's a known fact that married men get hit on just as much as, or more than, single dudes!).

but he said that he felt pressured throughout most of the relationship, and that he never really got a chance to "feel" it. The only way for him to get her back is to ask her to marry him.

And that's not a good reason to get married. Someone close to me went through that already. And is now divorced and it isn't a pretty scene.

The bottom line is that a proposal is not going to help. If she is as smart as she sounds to have a good career and all, she will on some level KNOW that she pressured 'Tom' into this decision and it's going to make her feel like shit, and question whether he really loves her, or if he married her out of a sense of obligation. The arguments are going to change to: "You don't really love me, you only married me for xxxxx reason!" (insert self-pity here)

It sounds like the relationship is already committed enough to justify a few trips to a marriage counselor.

[Weedhound]

Well I have a feeling for her its less about title and more about her childrens' future......she's not just thinking for herself now. Fog described both sides very well.....although I would like to know the ages....that is easy to see both sides of the equation. I'm with Stinky (as usual ) that counseling is the way to go if they want to work out the relationship and just off the top of my head I'd say it sounds like it would be worth the work for them and could turn out to be a good relationship in the end.

[TheGreenFog]

If he wants to see her again, tell him to make an excuse up. Well, he does, so tell him to make an excuse up so she can see him, again.

Or, tell him to marry her, and, look after her kids as they were his own.

Well, that would be only a temporary solution. I think he did that for a couple weeks, then she decided to move out and then she told him that if he loves her, he will give her her space and not call/email her for a while. He has respected that, but he thinks about her all the time and misses her. He knows that there is not much to say unless it's something big, so he's trying to figure it out before he does anything rash, I guess. Does that make sense?

Marry with a prenup... sounds like a gold digger to me...

Nah, man. I don't think that's it, Skink. Neither one of them has any real assets and I think they both make about the same income-wise.



Stinky...some real good points. I think you may be exactly right for some of them...maybe not all, but I'm not positive.


I think she is a bit old-fashioned and wants the husband/wife title...she also thinks it's silly to be talking about her "boyfriend" at that age (she's just over thirty). He's mid/late twenties.

Weedhound, I think a lot of it DOES have to do with her children. She wants to set a good example for them and she doesn't like the idea of living out of wedlock with another man, I guess.


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[birdgirl73]

Tom needs to either make up his mind to commit to that woman. Or let her move on and find someone who will. I don't know why women who want to be married get themselves into situations where they live with guys who can't or won't commit, but it's an age-old story.

The bottom line really is about him. If he really loves her and wants her around permanently, then he ought to take the leap and commit. That's real hard for a lot of guys to do, especially if they've been through bad marriages previously. And the statistics definitely aren't optimistic. A second marriage has a higher chance of divorce than a first one, and when one or both partners has kids it's likely to fail even faster. If he doesn't want to marry her, he ought to stay single, let her have her freedom to move on, and go sew those wild oats and grow up.

I get the respect thing and think it's valid. There are plenty of guys who can't or won't make a relationship legitimate, and that does involve a lack of respect for the woman involved. But before that, it takes a lack of self-respect on her part to get involved in a hopeless situation like that. Just as there are guys who can't commit, there are also women who constantly connect themselves to guys who can't and then spend their lives being frustrated and angry that the guy can't commit. So it's a two-way street. On some unconscious level, she may well not want to be married, herself, or she wouldn't be choosing guys who don't think she's worthy of being married to. Considering that they come from common career and life circumstances, I don't buy that she's a gold-digger, but I'm sure she's eager to find a husband to help parent those kids. To really be successful in finding a husband and co-parent, she's got to break with tradition and find someone who wants to be in that situation.

[TheGreenFog]

Well, birdgirl. I think you also have a point there. Maybe he's not ready to commit. I don't know if it's that he's necessarily a non-committing person, cause he was married before for like 4 years or something.

He told me that since he's met her, he has surprisingly gone from a position where he had sworn off marriage for the rest of his life, to a position where he thought it was really a possibl thing that would happen, but he was just not ready for it. IMO, I think that is a big step. For her to continue the relationship from the beginning when he told her that he would never get married was a risky decision, but he actually changed his mindset some, so there's something to be said for that.

BIRDGIRL, I think that one of the main things holding him back from marrying her is the fact that she was pressuring him throughout their whole relationship. He said that he asked her to just lay off of it for a few months or so, but that she would constantly be talking about it. He felt that she was not only pressuring her, but that she was not even giving him the ability to make his own decision. If he did take some time to do an introspective and decided that he wanted to propose, it would not be a surprise, nor would it be incredibly romantic because it would be the subject that they just talked (argued) about a few days prior.

It was like she was asking him to ask her to marry him. Is that not wierd?

I dunno, I guess I can see good points on both sides, but that's unfortunate, because it seems that they may be at an impasse. It's really too bad for the kids.


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[birdgirl73]

I'm sure the pressure thing didn't help. She shouldn't have pressured him, but that's what ladies who get into that situation think will work. "Oh, OK, I'll move in with him and then I'm sure I can get him to marry me." (NOT.)

They key is to keep separate residences, make sure he knows you have other options, lay off with the pressure-cooker, and play it very cool and hard-to-get practically till you're walking back down the aisle from the altar after the ceremony is over.

A former four-year marriage isn't exactly a testimonial to a strong committment ability, by the way. If anything, it's the opposite. And that's fine. He ought to be commitment-shy if he already has one failed marriage behind him.