Ugh, BOYS piss me off.

[slowlickitysplit]

Slow, I swear, more and more I have a hard time believing you when you say you don't smoke. Or that you're a teacher. Whatever point you're trying to make is about as clear as mud in your first two paragraphs, only one of which I will requote above. I can't tell, but I'm pretty sure you've taken what I actually said and run it through the Slowlickity distortion filter, particularly taking into account your disdainful comment about the liberal intelligentsia.

Again, I can't be sure what point you were trying to make in the top part of your angry post. But what I said earlier was fairly simple. I said there lots of educated, evolved men who're able to treat women as equals, both professionally and personally. Take a moment and some deep breaths, take off the anti-feminist filter, and reread my actual words in this post and the one below it. Reread the entire thread, in fact, and take some deep breaths before you react:

http://boards.cannabis.com/womens-is...ml#post1480035

I certainly didn't say "all men" were Neanderthals or that all educated men are not, which, again, was why I chose the word "lots." Goodness knows there are plenty of educated men who cannot regard us as equals, too. There are men of all socioeconomic and education stations who cannot. This is again why I used the word "lots" and thanked my husband for not being among the small-minded idiots of the world.

Domestic abuse/spousal-partner degradation occurs against both men and women, although it is reported 8 times more frequently against women. And while it does occur to a slightly lower degree among people with more education, probably because they have fewer financial woes, those situations cross all socioeconomic boundaries. We serve both abused women and men in the crisis center where I volunteer. And they come from the fanciest neighborhoods to the poorest. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, the attitudes about domestic abuse actually stem from exposure and modeling in families of origin rather than from cultural exposure or outside teaching.

Above all, Slow, you don't seem to have noticed that I spoke against the unfair characterization of all men as unlikable or as bad guys and against the generalization of hating them all based on one loser. I know from being familiar with BFA's history why she herself may have developed that attitude, and she clearly created this post having run it through the filter of her own personal experience and also after having read a post that articulated some offensive attitudes (http://boards.cannabis.com/sexuality...ml#post1479936). She's allowed to express such an opinion if she wants to, offensive as it may be to others, because she's not breaking any forum rules, just as BA wasn't breaking any rules with his comments, either.

These negative generalizations are why Demeter and I and lots of others, men included, stepped in to caution against making sweeping statements against all men. It's interesting to me that far fewer men stepped in to speak against the "training women correctly" comments in the thread that partly motivated BFA's posting this one.

This may be a women's forum, but those of us who know, love, honor and respect men, and we pretty much have to if we're going to be online here, need to help prevent male-bashing when we hear it just like we need to be very keen on the characterizations of women on these boards as "bitches" and "sluts" and as needing to be "properly trained."

Like it or not--and I understand why you would not--this thread came from a young lady who was not only responding to BA's comments, which she correctly saw as insulting to women. But also from someone who has been "bashed" multiple times by her own intimate partner. Actually, I suspect by more than one. We're hoping the self-esteem issues will get better there so she no longer chooses people who treat her that way.

You won't get any argument from me on the last part of what you said. That was understandable and more logical. There are indeed knuckle-draggers and people who love them. Knuckle-draggers of both genders, by the way.

Hardcore Newbie and Cannabis=Freedom, I have some real problems with what you're saying, but I have them because you seemed to be saying that hitting or physical abuse in any direction, female against male or male against female, is justifiable if the other person hits first. It is NOT. People of both genders need to refrain from physical abuse of any kind, and that's the bottom line. (They need to refrain from verbal abuse, too.)

Finally, I want to second what Demeter said. If you guys are going to get your panties in such a twist about comments that women make to each other in a women's forum, particularly under circumstances such as motivated BFA, you might want to stay in the more male-dominated areas of these boards. While you're out there, you might want to work on being just as vigilant about female-bashing comments that are made throughout these boards. They're out there in shameful quantity.

Wow! A 31 line response to my 2 lines. And, though you attacked me personally, you never really responded to my point which was...

BFA got mad when A guy said women need to be trained. Your response was that Neanderthal behavior in men is found more frequently in the less educated, implying that men need to be trained.

Any chance you might stop trying to belittle the people who disagree with you and start discussing the issues like a big girl?

- Slow -

[birdgirl73]

I didn't attack you personally, but you love to play the much-maligned victim when the going gets rought for you, so it always feels that way to you. I said I didn't believe some of the things you say about yourself because I've seen you misinterpret too written statements here and in the past. I simply told you my doubts about you, stating it as my impression and not taking a "You are an xxxxxxxx" attack approach.Trust me, if I'd attacked you personally, you'd have known it. But I wouldn't have done that.

I did discuss the issues like a big girl, by the way. Since that was a bit of an attack that you made on me, I'll go ahead and say you're the one who's not acting--or reading--like a comprehending adult here.

You yet again missed the entire point of what I was saying, believing I was making an oppositional correllating statement from what Breukelen Advocaat said. Nope. I was responding to BFA, who expressed her dislike of the degredation of women everywhere (a dangerously general sweeping statement, by the way) and after she read BA's women-need-to-be-trained comments. You somehow saw what I said in response to BFA as a directly reversed men-need-to-be-trained version of Breukelen Advocaat's women-need-to-be-trained statement. But, again, I was responding to BFA, not to BA. This is part of why it's clear you're filtering this through your defensiveness.

I didn't say men needed to be trained. Not even remotely. What I actually said were that there were lots of already-educated, evolved men (and there are even plenty of uneducated ones, too, I'm sure) who don't possess such women-need-to-be trained attitudes and who are able to treat women as personal and professional equals and not degrade them. It was very simple. I was saying they're already "trained," as BA so charmingly originally put that, not that they need to be.

This thread is getting us nowhere. And from the comments I'm beginning to get behind the scenes from women, I have the very strong feeling that it's soon about to devolve into a flame-fest, and the last thing we need is for that to happen. I'm going to close this thread to pre-empt any of that trouble before it happens. If you want to be especially safe, Slow, you might want to temporarily disable your reputationometer until ladies have forgotten about this discussion. And Slow, if you're going to find things said on the women's forum so troubling and easy to misinterpret, you may want to stay out of here in the future. Hope you have a good Sunday, Slow!