advanced string theory

[Hardcore Newbie]

The Bible says in Romans that God has made what may be known about him plain for everyone to know. It says His character and his qualities are evident in nature, and because of that no one has any excuse for "not knowing". Again, I am reminded of my experience with desert nomads who had dreams about Jesus with no missionary contact. But even if they had not had the dreams, the Bible teaches that they were without excuse based on the knowledge of God that is evident to all creation.

If anyone was deliberately confused by Christ through his teachings, it is because they have rejected His ways and He is beginning their punishment. So to question his motives for that is the same as questioning his motives for punishing those who are rebellious against him.

I take issue with this. If i had knowledge of God, I'd certainly be inclined, to at least agree that God exists. I'd still probably take issue with his word, but that would be after my acknowledging that word is at least real, because it's been proven to me. This isn't the case. I agree that there may be a god that does exist, I have no way of knowing, at least at the moment, but these words do not make sense to me. Whether I know the words and disobey, or I know the words and cannot *truly* comprehend them because my logic differs from his word? I can not honestly answer that question. It *feels* like my logic telling me that this doesn't make sense, so I'm going with that for now.

I don't doubt your sincerity at all. It's just not your place to tell the Creator what is fair and what isn't. I don't mean to sound rude, and I understand your concerns. Don't get me wrong, it is always good to ask questions and deal with your conerns... but in the end you're viewpoint will not really matter all that much if you are the created and He is the Creator. Besides, again, God has said that what may be known about Him already has been made evident. So from His point of view He already has "proven" himself to you, and you have rejected Him.

Can you see where this would also be frustrating to someone who is just trying to understand? All I'm trying to do is understand, and I've learned that it's not my place to show my my viewpoint is or isn't valid, and that my viewpoint doesn't really matter. You can see how this would be disheartening to someone just trying to understand, yes?

And no worries about "rudeness", I think we're being quite polite and having cordial conversation. I thoroughly enjoy the conversation

The Bible says in the parable about Lazarus and the rich man that even if someone came back from the dead and "proved" God was true, the same people would still talk themselves out of the 'miracle' because they just would not agree with the principles of God. In other words, even if God did appear to you, you still wouldn't think his rules about hell and obedience are fair. And a "magic trick", even an amazing "impossible" one, doesn't really prove anything about the "fairness" of the magician. One way or the other, eventually you'll have to submit to God and acknowledge that "the rules" are His call and His call alone. Then, once you are following His rules and practicing His ways, you realize how good they actually are for you and you grow in love with him.

.If god did reveal himself to me only to say "this body of words is my truth" and pointed to the Bible, I've already said i would be disheartened, because the rules to myself seem very unfair. Unfair that i don't know the reasoning behind the rules and my mind opposes these rules, and can't comprehend them. Maybe with this information, however, I have no reason to "not love god" because seeing Him was all that I needed to ignite that love. My concern tho, is for the people who, like me, wouldn't have this proof.

the magician thing is quite relevant tho, seeing as we're also talking about Chris Angel. If according to my mind, that these things are magic tricks, how can I believe one over another? I like the unequivocal, not something that can be explained another way.

You've got it somewhat backwards. The punishment is what is deserved by all of us for rebellion and rejection of His ways and what was made known to us about Him. The gift is the offer of forgiveness. If you reject the gift you aren't then punished for rejecting the gift. You are punished for your rebellion, and it was your choice to reject the gift of amnesty He so graciously offered.

Why is it a deserved punishment? I reject the idea that I deserve punishment because I have the mind of a sceptic. Many people make many outlandish claims, and to choose one based on faith while rejecting all other claims is literally impossible for my mind to do.

He doesn't need your faith... rather you need to trust and love Him in order to be in a loving relationship with Him. Its really very basic. And He has given mankind a second chance even though we have rejected Him and turned our backs on His ways. If you, in your heart, continue to rebel against Him then He will not force you to reside with Him forever. Instead, you will go to where you want... separation from Him... a bad place since He is everything that is good.

Again I take issue with this. If I don't take his word as my own and live by it, and just live close to what his word says without actually believing in His word, then the outcome is that I deserve no good. There's no actual middle ground, just torment and torture for those who do not accept his word as 100%, and heaven for those who do. I realize the benefit of loving your fellow man, but I apparantly get no credit from the creator for doing so, whether through his word or through my own discovery. It's like only the pure get salvation, and any shade of grey will not be tolerated.

I use the word "rebel" and "reject" not because I think you are a bad person... but rather because that is what it is called when someone disagrees with and dissents from the Authority. I know you have good intentions and I don't intend to call that into question. By the way, I smoke MJ too. I don't think use MJ is a sin since alcohol clearly is not and MJ is much less dangerous a drug. And I have an obligation under the United States constitution to dissent and try to change the government to justly represent the welfare and freedom of the people.

I do rebel and reject, but it's not to what i consider an authority, it's to an idea that I find to be unjust. I know from His viewpoint, He is the authority

But the difference between government rule and His rule, is that the governments rule can and does change (no matter how oddly), and his rule by nature, can never change. If i take any issue with his word, there is no room for discussion, and for a man that likes to solve problems through discussion (and in most cases, compromise), it doesn't leave a guy a lot of hope.

Anyways, i've been watching way too much youtube, I'm off to bed, have a good night and I hope to continue with you some other time :thumbsup: