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06-15-2007, 05:50 AM #18
Senior Member
advanced string theory
The Bible says in Romans that God has made what may be known about him plain for everyone to know. It says His character and his qualities are evident in nature, and because of that no one has any excuse for "not knowing". Again, I am reminded of my experience with desert nomads who had dreams about Jesus with no missionary contact. But even if they had not had the dreams, the Bible teaches that they were without excuse based on the knowledge of God that is evident to all creation.
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
If anyone was deliberately confused by Christ through his teachings, it is because they have rejected His ways and He is beginning their punishment. So to question his motives for that is the same as questioning his motives for punishing those who are rebellious against him.
I don't doubt your sincerity at all. It's just not your place to tell the Creator what is fair and what isn't. I don't mean to sound rude, and I understand your concerns. Don't get me wrong, it is always good to ask questions and deal with your conerns... but in the end you're viewpoint will not really matter all that much if you are the created and He is the Creator. Besides, again, God has said that what may be known about Him already has been made evident. So from His point of view He already has "proven" himself to you, and you have rejected Him.
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
The Bible says in the parable about Lazarus and the rich man that even if someone came back from the dead and "proved" God was true, the same people would still talk themselves out of the 'miracle' because they just would not agree with the principles of God. In other words, even if God did appear to you, you still wouldn't think his rules about hell and obedience are fair. And a "magic trick", even an amazing "impossible" one, doesn't really prove anything about the "fairness" of the magician. One way or the other, eventually you'll have to submit to God and acknowledge that "the rules" are His call and His call alone. Then, once you are following His rules and practicing His ways, you realize how good they actually are for you and you grow in love with him.
He has left us His Word as a way of "magically" reaching those of us who will believe and come back to him to be restored to peace and friendship with him.
You've got it somewhat backwards. The punishment is what is deserved by all of us for rebellion and rejection of His ways and what was made known to us about Him. The gift is the offer of forgiveness. If you reject the gift you aren't then punished for rejecting the gift. You are punished for your rebellion, and it was your choice to reject the gift of amnesty He so graciously offered.
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
He doesn't need your faith... rather you need to trust and love Him in order to be in a loving relationship with Him. Its really very basic. And He has given mankind a second chance even though we have rejected Him and turned our backs on His ways. If you, in your heart, continue to rebel against Him then He will not force you to reside with Him forever. Instead, you will go to where you want... separation from Him... a bad place since He is everything that is good.
Originally Posted by Hardcore Newbie
I use the word "rebel" and "reject" not because I think you are a bad person... but rather because that is what it is called when someone disagrees with and dissents from the Authority. I know you have good intentions and I don't intend to call that into question. By the way, I smoke MJ too. I don't think use MJ is a sin since alcohol clearly is not and MJ is much less dangerous a drug. And I have an obligation under the United States constitution to dissent and try to change the government to justly represent the welfare and freedom of the people.
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