To all the geeks.

[Lulu]

well everyone slips up now and again, and i hope you read in the post how i used the word TRY when speaking about the respect i give. Yeah i may have went a little overboard calling someone a ********** *******,it does add little towards civil discourse. So thanks for the cencorship, is that a dig?
Peace

Your welcome about the censorship
Now that was a dig
(sry cudn't resist )

Forget about it - now back to our scheduled programs....

[FrenchInhale]

Id like to start this thread with a hearty laugh. Anyone whose been here lately knows why. I would also like to apologize for larry being a bigot not all people who dont believe in god are so sad. Just as some catholics embarrass all others, non-believers have the same problem. And i would especially like to apologize for the word geek if i was going to insult some one i would have at least used a word that wasnt invented by a 4th grade school girl. Anyway
enough of that. The reason i have started this thread is just to ask the believers out there some questions. God is a caring loving and merciful god. If hes so caring and loving why would anyone go to hell. He is our father hence the prayer and the name he is so affectionetly given. If i had a kid and became a father i would do everything in my power to make sure that he was happy and lived the best life he could live to become the happiest he could be. Now sounds about right for any father out there except god. God is the strongest force int he univerese so much so he is the universe. If he loved his children why doesnt he use his power to save us all?

Another... did he create hell just for the children he doesnt like?

Another... if there are angels and humans why not make all beings angels so they have the privalige of starting life in heaven with god?

Another...All people are created and treated equal in the eyes of god. Satan was created because god gave him special power over other angels. Not very equal.

Another... god knows everything. why did he allow satan to become well satan?

Another...Why does he test his children when one of the ten commandments is to not test him.

Another... if the point of this life is to die and go to heaven to see god why have this life at all? why not just see god? well i just asked the meaning of life so i think ive gone to far. Any answer on any of my questions would be fabulous. Thanks geeks.

God is just like a parent, hence "God the father"... your parents have you and do everything in their power to make sure you are ok, but when you go against their will you are on your own.. the same with God... he will help you until you deny him... then you are on your own.. Hell's root meaning is "the absense of God" so God created hell for people who deny him... if they won't want him in this life... why would God let them come to him in the next? Angels are God's "tools" they do work for him... think of angels as God's power tools... he uses them to get things done... everyone can't be an angel... then there would be no need for angels. Satan was one of God's arch-angels... arch-angels are higher on the totem pole then regular angels.. Arch-angels have more important jobs and are closer to God than other angels. Satan tried to betray God... he was an angel who tried to take over heaven... God banished Satan from heaven... he still loved Satan so instead of just destroying him he banished him. And he allowed him to rule over hell. One of the ten commandments is not to test God, not for God to test us. God can do whatever he wants he is God... and just because bad things happen doesn't mean its God's fault... you know their are demons that work for satan that have powers and can do things to people. Their is no purpose to life other than to glorify God... God made us so there could be "something" in his likeness here on earth. I like to think God made us in the sense that it would be a good play toy for him. He enjoys looking at us and see what we do... we are like G.I. Joe's... well there is the answer to all of your questions through my beliefs.... hope that helps.

[FrenchInhale]

Also another reason why it is so hard for christians to defend their faith is that MOST christians aren't deep enough in their faith to defend it... they just know "the basics" try to have a religious conversation with someone like Jerry Fauldwell... I bet he could battle you point for point until the end of time... It is easy to believe religion... it is hard to understand and know all about a religion... most people never know enough about their religion to have a decent point of view on it.

[buddha]

I like to think God made us in the sense that it would be a good play toy for him. He enjoys looking at us and see what we do... we are like G.I. Joe's...

You like to think that? Well at least out of all these posts some one tried to answer somthing. Alot of the points you made though really cant be disputed on either side because we cant have any tangible proof towrds either.
But ok yes i know about angels and arch angels ive never heard them called tools before but good explination i guess. Still though god favored satan and gave him extra power over all the other agnels knowing that he would try to rise up against him. And that he would have to send him to hell. So if hes such a loving all knowing god why would he do somthing that would cause such chaos in heaven, when he knew an eternity in advance that this would happen? Well guys i just decided im tired of asking questions and getting hypothetical answers and contradictory explanations.

[buddha]

If god is so pefect and divine why is everything he creates so far from perfect and divine?

[FrenchInhale]

God let everything that happens happen because he gives everyone free choice... and he gave Satan free choice... Satan is the biggest deceiver of all time... and he deceived Angels to believe that he could be greater than God... God didn't give him any special powers that would benifit him from other Angels in that sense... besides deception... And the reason why everything isn't so perfect and divine.. is because that is heaven... that is the whole reason why christians do what they do... they want to get to a place perfect and divine. And the G.I. Joe's thing was just an example for lack of a better one.

[GHoSToKeR]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!!

This is a hypothetical situation that I would like you to consider -

You build a toy remote-control boat. You make it beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, with it's own sails, decorations, engine and rotor etc.. You're proud of your work. You admire it, and then you set it down on a river. You turn it on, hit the 'Forward' button on the remote-control, and the boats rotor kicks in, and away it goes, straight down the river. But then, as you follow it, walking along the bank of the river, you see a waterfall, 100 metres ahead. The boat is heading straight for it - it will surely be destroyed. Now, you've created this beautiful thing, and you're extremely proud of it. Surely the best course of action would be either to turn the boat around, using the remote-control, or to simply cut the engine. Any sane, rational human-being would agree with me. You know that the boat cannot see the waterfall coming - it cannot forsee its own demise - but you can, and yet you choose to do nothing. Nada. Not a thing. You created this thing, you set it on its way, and you had the power to stop it from destruction, but instead, you decide to sit back and watch it be destroyed.

Another hypothetical scenario:

You buy a kitten from a pet-store. It's 2 months old. You nurse it, nurture it, mother it. Eventually, the kitten, as it matures, starts to think of you as its parent. It loves you, it listens to you, and it obeys you. As it experiments by moving around the house, hiding in different places, playing with different objects, you tell it which things it should and shouldnt do, and reward or punish it accordingly. The kitten is only now a couple of months old, and is not big enough to jump out of the window, onto the motorway below.

Then suddely one day, you realize it is big enough to jump on to the windowledge, and out of the window. When you get home from work one day, you find the cat at the edge of the window, about to drop down, so you grab it, tell it not to do that again. The next day, you get home from work, and the cat is on the windowledge again. But this time, you dont grab it; you dont yell at it; you dont stop it. In your opinion, you've told the cat that jumping out of the window is wrong, and that it shouldnt be done, so now, you believe, if the cat jumps out of the window and dies, then it is nobodies fault but its own - once you told the cat not to do it once, it shouldnt have done it again, its not your responsibility.

If you think about it, what makes the relationship between God and us any different to the hypothetical relationship between you and the boat, or you and the cat? If a loving parent tells you not to do something dangerous or wrong, it will still try and save you from that danger, or stop you from doing that thing, no matter how many times you try.. Laugh if you want, but im stoned, and those hypothetical thingys made sense to me lol

[boywonder]

If god is so pefect and divine why is everything he creates so far from perfect and divine?

i wouldnt say i was a beliver in 'god' but i think on this earth pretty much everything is perfect in a way some kinda way. like life cycles things grow and die.it's fuckin kool where living in great times yeah people are dieing at least you and i am not dead and if i was i wouldnt even know about it so like it dosent matter.this life is perfect for the reason i can do nething i want and the natural world is pretty kool u have to admit and course we have got weed
you know what i mean interesting fact in 20 years a person loses all their origainal cells and replaces them mayb abit more wrinkled its well fucked. it's liek where not even the same original person but we are. i think i read it yesterday invisible landscape.

[Euphoric]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!!

This is a hypothetical situation that I would like you to consider -

You build a toy remote-control boat. You make it beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, with it's own sails, decorations, engine and rotor etc.. You're proud of your work. You admire it, and then you set it down on a river. You turn it on, hit the 'Forward' button on the remote-control, and the boats rotor kicks in, and away it goes, straight down the river. But then, as you follow it, walking along the bank of the river, you see a waterfall, 100 metres ahead. The boat is heading straight for it - it will surely be destroyed. Now, you've created this beautiful thing, and you're extremely proud of it. Surely the best course of action would be either to turn the boat around, using the remote-control, or to simply cut the engine. Any sane, rational human-being would agree with me. You know that the boat cannot see the waterfall coming - it cannot forsee its own demise - but you can, and yet you choose to do nothing. Nada. Not a thing. You created this thing, you set it on its way, and you had the power to stop it from destruction, but instead, you decide to sit back and watch it be destroyed.

Another hypothetical scenario:

You buy a kitten from a pet-store. It's 2 months old. You nurse it, nurture it, mother it. Eventually, the kitten, as it matures, starts to think of you as its parent. It loves you, it listens to you, and it obeys you. As it experiments by moving around the house, hiding in different places, playing with different objects, you tell it which things it should and shouldnt do, and reward or punish it accordingly. The kitten is only now a couple of months old, and is not big enough to jump out of the window, onto the motorway below.

Then suddely one day, you realize it is big enough to jump on to the windowledge, and out of the window. When you get home from work one day, you find the cat at the edge of the window, about to drop down, so you grab it, tell it not to do that again. The next day, you get home from work, and the cat is on the windowledge again. But this time, you dont grab it; you dont yell at it; you dont stop it. In your opinion, you've told the cat that jumping out of the window is wrong, and that it shouldnt be done, so now, you believe, if the cat jumps out of the window and dies, then it is nobodies fault but its own - once you told the cat not to do it once, it shouldnt have done it again, its not your responsibility.

If you think about it, what makes the relationship between God and us any different to the hypothetical relationship between you and the boat, or you and the cat? If a loving parent tells you not to do something dangerous or wrong, it will still try and save you from that danger, or stop you from doing that thing, no matter how many times you try.. Laugh if you want, but im stoned, and those hypothetical thingys made sense to me lol

sorry ghost but i gotta give you props for that one! i disgree with your point but hey

[Purge]

ok. there have been many many gods and religions throughout time, how much sense does it make that ONE religion is right and that this ONE "god" ruled over all us and creates and what not, and this has always been this way..ok that doesnt make any sense at all. where was "god" during greek and roman times when they worshipped many gods? christianity wasnt even created before 1 a.d., so one day got just decided to make this dude named jesus christ and he sent him down to earth just to let us all know about him, but yeah fuck everyone elses beleifs cuz thats the one true relgion? no i dont think so.