Bill W

[the yeag]

I dont see why your shocked..if you smoke the herb...it takes away any clean time that you have..

i have put the pipe down for now.......for at least 30-60 more days. i cannot find anything wrong with someone smoking pot in moderation. i know plenty of people in A.A who feel the same.:jointsmile: I promise to myself that if I abuse it like alcohol i will put it down for good, at least i know i will not crave pot. i will not have the physical addiction of pot.....i know i never have smoked a joint and said...gee i want to drink a case of beer!!!!! mabye i would drink a case of snapple or soda:jointsmile:

[geonagual]

i have put the pipe down for now.......for at least 30-60 more days. i cannot find anything wrong with someone smoking pot in moderation. i know plenty of people in A.A who feel the same.:jointsmile: I promise to myself that if I abuse it like alcohol i will put it down for good, at least i know i will not crave pot. i will not have the physical addiction of pot.....i know i never have smoked a joint and said...gee i want to drink a case of beer!!!!! mabye i would drink a case of snapple or soda:jointsmile:

HAHA. True.. that is the same way I feel. I have been to quite a few NA meetings and there are a lot more people than you think in recovery for MJ. I always thought. wtf! Then they were going up and getting their 10 year coin..who knows?

[the yeag]

I look at it like this, everyone is fucked up...think about it everyone you know is either on something..or overdoing something...beer ,coke, pot , cigs , food , sex , heroin...or they are in fucking recovery. it did not use to be like this cause people were to fucking busy trying to get by , instead of choosing between starbucks or the local coffee house.

[Breukelen advocaat]

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

AA is cult-like. You're supposed to go for the rest of your life. That never sounded like a good idea to me.

There are alternative programs and organizations that allow people to get themselves off alcohol and/or bad drugs by using self-reliance, without the "higher power" belief system and other baggage associated with 12 step programs. I don't have a substance-abuse problem, but if I did I could not agree with most of AA's twelve steps, so it wouldn't work for me.

These are the original Twelve Steps as defined by Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugsâ??that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

[birdgirl73]

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

Can you cite a reference for your facts, please? Because in what they're teaching in medical schools, these are the standards stats regarding addicion. This information comes from the Diseases of Psychology/Addiction chapter in Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine:

A third of addicts get better.
People who work some sort of program or get some sort of therapeutic help--It doesn't have to be AA, which is certainly far from therapy--are more than four times more likely to succeed than those who don't.
A third of addicts stay about the same.
A third deteriorate.

[geonagual]

I think it does help people though..My dad always talked major shit about AA..calling them "the blind, leading the blind"..Cause he stopped drinking by himself after 25 years of abusing..wasn;t a pretty site either...DT's, months in bed...then he got prescribed valium,,so here comes another addiction..one right after another...

[the yeag]

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

AA is cult-like. You're supposed to go for the rest of your life. That never sounded like a good idea to me.

There are alternative programs and organizations that allow people to get themselves off alcohol and/or bad drugs by using self-reliance, without the "higher power" belief system and other baggage associated with 12 step programs. I don't have a substance-abuse problem, but if I did I could not agree with most of AA's twelve steps, so it wouldn't work for me.

These are the original Twelve Steps as defined by Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugsâ??that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

97% of people who just go to treatment alone fail.....A.A works if YOU work it. 1 my life was unmanageble, 2 I beilive that a group of induviduals...my higher power can help me.3 i gladly turned over my addiction, because i could not control it on my own.4 everyone should do this reguardless of addiction.5 are catholics all bad too? haha it feels good to tell on yourself.6&7 wouldn't we all like to be better people? 8 i cant wait to start this...sounds a bit like pay it forward 9 again sounds uplifting if done right,,,i would never tell someone how i wronged them if it would only make me feel better.10 keep your ass in check.11meditation...church.....whatever just stay spiritual.12 help people...be a giver not a taker.

you wont or cannot do most of these things...I AM SORRY

[surreys princess]

the anonymous programs do not always work, breuk was not wrong...

The Effectiveness of the Twelve-Step Treatment

and if you want something more "professional".....this says that in one year, 31 percent of people stayed sober..that is it.....

Alcohol and Drug Rehabilitation - Betty Ford Center Ask Dr. West Sober Days

just like anything else, there is good and bad reported.....people have to decide for themselves i suppose...

[Breukelen advocaat]

Can you cite a reference for your facts, please? Because in what they're teaching in medical schools, these are the standards stats regarding addicion. This information comes from the Diseases of Psychology/Addiction chapter in Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine:
A third of addicts get better.
People who work some sort of program or get some sort of therapeutic help--It doesn't have to be AA, which is certainly far from therapy--are more than four times more likely to succeed than those who don't.
A third of addicts stay about the same.
A third deteriorate.

Addiction is a behavior, and not a â??diseaseâ?�.

AA will not release much information or statistical data, for good reason: it is a faith-healing cult, completely unscientific, and an abysmal failure as a method of self control. In one of their own publications, AAâ??s success rate is averaged at five percent (source: P&T Bullshit 12 Step Programs video #3/3), which is the same exact rate as people that stop on their own.

Penn and Teller cover it in detail here (below), with help from people with AA experience, and other experts on addiction. AA is compulsory religion since the courts sentences people to join it, which is against the constitution.

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (1/3)

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (2/3)

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (3/3)

Twelve Step programs are useless,and most drug and alcohol programs use them. We need methods that work.

[surreys princess]

now i had your back breuk, until that....

my name is princess and i am an addict...i have been clean for 12 years....i have been an addict/alcoholic (used to be called cross addicted back in the day....) for 21 long and arduous years....

if i may quote.... "addiction is a disease from which there in no known cure"....

it is classified as a disease because it changes the brain chemistry, and it is further classified as a neurological disorder....the only reason why there is a deabate is because "free will" is involved...once again, the classification goes back to the damage you do to the brain during addiction.....

im not sure what i think about penn and teller though...