Could somebody PLEASE explain this to me....finally!

[mrdevious]

There's something I've really been wondering about, but it seems nobody ever answers me when I mention it in other threads. I'm also wondering if it's typical of other people, or it's just me.

A brief description of my condition; I have soft tissue damage throughout my upper and lower back, and in my neck. Nerve damage in 3 points in my spine, extremely painful needles that go down my arms (though that's gone since I got on lyrica), and sciatica + burning pain in my entire legs, all the way around.

I don't smoke cannabis now, but when I did for the first year 1/2 it was an amazingly strong analgesic (painkiller). But in the last year and a half I've smoked it, it actually makes my pain considerably worse. The inflammation in my spine just explodes and my whole spine from neck to back would worsen by about 3x. It still works awsomely for neuralgia, that is it eliminates my sciatica and needles down the arms, but otherwise my back and neck just get SO much worse.

Isn't there SOME scientific literature out there somewhere, or perhapse somebody here with medical knowledge, who could explain this? Because honestly I couldn't find anything through google indicating pain being made worse by weed.

mrdevious Reviewed by mrdevious on 05-25-2007. Could somebody PLEASE explain this to me....finally! There's something I've really been wondering about, but it seems nobody ever answers me when I mention it in other threads. I'm also wondering if it's typical of other people, or it's just me. A brief description of my condition; I have soft tissue damage throughout my upper and lower back, and in my neck. Nerve damage in 3 points in my spine, extremely painful needles that go down my arms (though that's gone since I got on lyrica), and sciatica + burning pain in my entire legs, all the way Rating: 5

[Kenn]

Ill be waching this thread in anticipation, I also have back pain from work and when I smoke weed The pain seems to get worse.Thank u for making this thread mrdevious i hope ur Question will be answerd.

[birdgirl73]

I wish I knew this answer, but I can't find anything on it, either, and my guess is that there's not been enough large-scale medical research on cannabis and analgesia here in North America for anyone to be very knowledgeable.

My theory is that it must have something to do with the gradual desensitization of cannabinoid receptors that occurs. Or possibly, too, with its action as an early vaso-constrictor, followed by vaso-dilation, which might trigger spasms in some of your nerve pathways, worsening the inflammation (same mechanism by which it triggers headaches in some people). As you got more cannabis exposure, your body became less sensitive to it, and yet it still sent some of those vessels and nerves into spasms. This is just a guess, and it's not a very educated one.

I found some good information about neuropathic pain, which you may already have read. Doesn't have many mentions of cannabis or the question you asked here, but it comes from Canada. It said neuropathic pain is a hard thing to treat.
Neuropathic pain: a practical guide for the clinician -- Gilron et al. 175 (3): 265 -- Canadian Medical Association Journal

I had questions of my own for you. Did you by any chance change strains over the course of your smoking and perhaps later smoke a more Sativa-dominant strain instead of Indica? And when you've taken breaks from smoking and then returned to it, did you notice more analgesic relief after the break? I was curious about that.

When my sister Bess was sick, we noticed that cannabis did a lot more for her nausea, mood, and appetite than it did for her pain. She always found that prescribed medicines did the trick for pain a lot better than weed, but of course we didn't have much strain variety to choose from. She also had pain related to tumor growth as opposed to neuropathic pain, which was another difference.

Hope someone'll come along with a good answer here!

[mrdevious]

Ill be waching this thread in anticipation, I also have back pain from work and when I smoke weed The pain seems to get worse.Thank u for making this thread mrdevious i hope ur Question will be answerd.

Thanks for posting Kenn, it's nice to know I'm not the only one having this reverse effect.

I had questions of my own for you. Did you by any chance change strains over the course of your smoking and perhaps later smoke a more Sativa-dominant strain instead of Indica? And when you've taken breaks from smoking and then returned to it, did you notice more analgesic relief after the break? I was curious about that.

I changed strains quite frequently, whatever was the flavour of the month from my dealer(s), and they usually had something different going. I found that strains with more of a body-high (indica I guess) were more painful than sativa's, but they all made the pain worse regardless. I actually went off for a whole 6 weeks once, and it still had the exact same effect on my pain levels when I smoked it. Another time I went off for a month, same thing. I'm sort of hoping that after I haven't smoked for along while, maybe half a year, I can get the analgesia again when I have the odd toke. I'm never going right back into the casual-smoking lifestyle again though, I want my tolerance right at the bottom where I can get relief and certain magic that weed used to provide.


Thanks for the link btw, I'll check it out . You've been immensely helpful as always birdgirl.

[mrdevious]

My theory is that it must have something to do with the gradual desensitization of cannabinoid receptors that occurs. Or possibly, too, with its action as an early vaso-constrictor, followed by vaso-dilation, which might trigger spasms in some of your nerve pathways, worsening the inflammation (same mechanism by which it triggers headaches in some people). As you got more cannabis exposure, your body became less sensitive to it, and yet it still sent some of those vessels and nerves into spasms. This is just a guess, and it's not a very educated one.

Oh yes, I forgot to respond to this part. While I know this is just a guess, you may have something there, albeit I don't understand how vasco dilation/constriction causes "spasms" in nerve pathways ( I didnt' know nerve pathways could spasm). The reason, though, that I think you have something here is because when I get high and the pain worsens I can feel this sort of "tension". There's absolutely no muscle tension, in fact it's reduced, but it's like a tense energy that's flowing through my body at the core. Similar to caffein high actually, which is also a central nervous system stimulant.

Furthermore, when I take Tramadol which is central nervous system stimulant, it seems to greatly reduce if not altogether eliminate this tense energy. If anybody's wondering how something that makes many tried can be a CNS, it's because it's also an adrenal gland suppresant. Personally though, it just makes me energetic and happy (and for some rason extremely irritable if you rub me even slightly the wrong way:wtf

[birdgirl73]

From what I've read about severe headache pain, the nerve pathways themselves don't necessarily spasm. What happens is that the blood vessels spasm, and that constriction/dilation action (spasm) triggers nerve pain because the nerves travel right along the same path of the blood vessels. In headaches, it's the blood vessels in the scalp that spasm and set off headaches--often as a result of the dilation (relaxation) mechanism. That's why the best anti-migraine remedies nowadays are very powerful vasoconstrictors. Both constriction and relaxation of blood vessels can be a pain trigger.

I'm going to do some reading about tramadol. I wonder if that might help alleviate some of the wackiness that's happening in response to my spinal problem I'm about to have surgery for. I think the compression of my spine is making me have a sort of physical tension I've not had before, along with very uncharacteristic irritability. It's irritability about the strangest things, too, like tense dialogue in a movie. And uncharacteristic floods of adrenalin in response to surprise, anger, and even after eating. It's the strangest feeling, and it's only been happening as this spinal pressure has gotten worse. I'm convinced the adrenergic response is aggravating my heart rhythm problem, too. Sorry to sidetrack off your original topic, but what you've told me about tramadol makes me wonder if it might help alleviate some of these symptoms!

[mrdevious]

Don't be sorry birdgirl, I love your sidetracks, any opportunity to learn more is welcome and any opportunity to help each other out is welcome.


I can tell you the following about Tramadol just form my off-hand knowledge:


- acts a CNS stimulant and adrenergic supressant.

- Works by binding to MU1 opiod receptors, the same as morphine. It has a low binding affinity though, so it's strength is only about 10% that of actual morphine. Though personally, I had a small dose of morphine once and found it to be barely stronger really.

- It's a synthetic opiate, has the lowest addiction potential of all the opiates, and the lowest constipation potential. unfortuantely for me, it still constipates pretty bad, but just eating a few appricots a day has cured that 100%. I've been on it since last summer and I'm still not addicted, as I take 2-3 days off a week. Even after taking it for 4 months every single day, I haven't become hooked. But it seems I don't get hooked on anything, not even tobacco which I've been smoking 5x a week for 8 months (stopped now), and not even coffee which I drink every morning since I was 14. lol, ok I'm getting sidetracked.

- It's sometimes prescribed off-label to treat depression, but that's only because it binds to mu receptors.

- It was invented by a german chemist sometime in the 80's.

- Personally, it makes small irritations seem like HUGE irritations, but that seems uncharacteristic of most users. Otherwise makes me happy and relaxed.

- I find slow release is much too slow, it takes about 2 days. even regular release lasts about 18 hours, but because it's so slow it's also incredibly weak. So the only way I get any real analgesia is to chew the tablets to get instant release, in which case it lasts 6 hours.

[Iplaybass182]

I guess this has to due with this but I get really wierd feelings in my back sometimes when I smoke. Sometimes its really relaxing and a massage feeling but a few times it was kind of uncomfortable.

[mrdevious]

Seems nobody knows then, just another disappointing dead end. Ah well, maybe there'll eventually be some medical literature on it, but I've yet to find it.

[QUADRO]

Hi Mrdevious did you try different weed for your back pain? if not try it the stuff you are using just might not be the weed you need myself I suffer from chronic pain and some weed works better than others and some make it much worse the weed that makes it worse seems to make me think about it more some people would call it paranoid. good luck guy