Hostel II - going too far?

[BlAzInIt4:20]

Love that movie also... just watched it two days ago.. :thumbsup:

[Hardcore Newbie]

I loved hostel myself, I thought it was an eerie concept. I'm usually not a fan of gore movies, I am really big on suspense. But even tho the deaths look highly realistic and there are some VERY disturbing scenes, I thought it was a good movie simply because it scared the bejeezus out of me.

The fact that it's fake *does* provide a safety net of sorts for me, as I realize that it's just a story. Would I watch it if it were real? Absolutely not. I didn't watch the beheadings of the soldiers when they were all around the internet, because I thought it was just sick.

[B.Basher]

"Oh Yeah sure LOL that figures, seeing as it is women who start all the wars and mostly take in part in them these days. Oh and all those female tyrants throughout history responsbile for genocide and the rape of the environment."

I thought we were talking about domestic violence here? But your right, women are highly vulnerable and need to be huggled and buggled and kept away from icky things that might make them feel scared.

Back on the subject: the way I see it (and I believe a guy responsible for butchering a bunch of innocent people in the UK a decade ago also quoted), murderers don't come from those films, those films come from murderers. Any attempt to link hostile acts to violent entertainment always comes out unsuccesful, why? Because people were sadistic before they invented the sadistic film. Speaking of which, kindly give us a few links to your sources of information because so far i'm unconvinced it's any kind of problem but your own thinking too hard about one film.

[slipknotpsycho]

hey dude, if you want a movie to really bitch about, get "August Underground Mordum" off a torrent site.. people on my movie forums seem to think that the people that were killed and tortured, were actually killed and tortured and i'm likely to believe... there are some things that you just can't fake, and well..


i ain't even watched the damn thing, i wanted to see how 'sick' it was so i downloaded it and skimmed through it..


hostel is a kids story to this shit...

[Staurm]

Back on the subject: the way I see it (and I believe a guy responsible for butchering a bunch of innocent people in the UK a decade ago also quoted), murderers don't come from those films, those films come from murderers. Any attempt to link hostile acts to violent entertainment always comes out unsuccesful, why? Because people were sadistic before they invented the sadistic film. Speaking of which, kindly give us a few links to your sources of information because so far i'm unconvinced it's any kind of problem but your own thinking too hard about one film.

You can hold a genre such as the Roth/Tarantino "sicko-pact" spree responsible for grinding violence into the minds of impressionable young people. They may not go and start killing people, but most certainly it will play a part in moulding some of them into becoming more aggressive and less compassionate human beings as a result.

TV influences people. IF it influences people to buy things they don't need, to beleive lies, to live their lives according to materialist values, to conduct their social interactions in many different ways, then why not also to kill people?

People start acting like characters they aspire to be from their favourite shows, I've witnessed myself do it unconciously. IF it is capable of homogenising and mediating society to an unhealthy playing field, is it also not capable of isolating people and turning them into sociopaths?

You have to look back further than the start of the film.

Individual circumstances are by far the most influencial factors in the creation of the psychopath of course, but the evidence is still there there that sometimes people do go nuts and copy violence from films so you cannot say films are beyond reproach.

Sometimes people just do it out of sheer badness. When A Clockwork Orange was re-released in 1999/2000(?) following the death of Stanley Kubrick, in the town where I lived at the time, in the outskirts of London, where as it happens Kubrick also filmed 2001, a man my age was attacked and beaten by a gang of 14-18 year olds outside the cinema, on the night or around the weekend it was re-released. This is a regular occurence in that town, in fact when I lived there I was scared to go out the front door.

You can't hold a film wholly repsonsible for a copy cat killing though, but you can hold it responsbile for influencing the method of killing. That does not incriminate the creator of the film though, he is not directly attributed to the crime, he just thought it up, the copycat was free to choose a different method.

It's art reflecting society, but I am not ready to completely discount the possiblity of there being some sort of a cycle if destruction going on between the two, art depicting society and every other time just a little bit more influencing the behaviour of society back.

"...people were sadistic before they invented the sadistic film."

Not always. Whilst documented history contains countless examples of war and fighting, never at any time has violence been so globally pandemic to the extreme levels we are witnessing today. What concerns me is what effect this kind of media violence will have in years/decades to come. Besides societies current trend towards ever more destructive values, and violent behaviour, there is also this new medium influencing society in many other accountable ways.

A couple of examples.

A Clockwork Orange (film - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(section British Withdrawal)

Sorry your only getting one link, I can't find a source for the Child's Play 3 copycat killing where two young boys stole a baby and placed it under the wheels of a train in around 1993 I think that was.

[Staurm]

BBC News | Politics | No conclusive link between videos and violence

No wait, (too late (10 minutes)). Theres a link, doesn't exactly support my argument though, but its interesting that it comes from the same Home Office who tell us cannabis causes violent behaviour.

[B.Basher]

Good post man. Links or no links, I take the agnostic approach to the subject. While I definitely agree with your post about media influences (and that was a heavy ass post), I feel that trying to pin the blame of sick and corrupt minds on entertainment shared by millions across the globe is, as I mentioned before, nothing but a scapegoat. However, I do believe the possibility is there, you already put it into perfect words, but while a film might influence someones violent actions, that person is always violent to begin with. That is by no means fair reasoning to try and pin the blame on entertainment (not that you do, just a lot of retarded politicians throughout the years).
You mentioned yourself that gang attacks were a regular occurence in your area. That convinces me that the gang that attacked the old man on the re-release night of Clockwork most likely would have done it either way. They may or may not have gotten a little extra juice from the movie, but there's no real way of knowing in the end.
Also, about that Childs Play 3 killing, I am also certain that no character in that movie treated a baby like that. Yes, the movie features some bloody violence, and a baby, but thats like trying to pin terrorism on action movies because they have lots of guns and bombs in them. In the end, we humans love watching violence, there are sure as hell gonna be more than a few that like to go through with it too.

[Staurm]

Thanks man, I tell you it took me several hours and lots of :stoned: breaks to churn that one out, so I am glad you appreciate it.

And less of the "old-man" will you, I said a man MY age, 35 ain't old!

I'm not sure about the Child'sPLay3 thing TBH I never saw it. But there was a big hoohah about it when this incident with the kidnapped baby happened, and Child's PLay seemed to take a lot of the flack, and it had to be removed from the shelves as a result.

Whatever is anyones opinion, I still wouldn't trust what the politicians say. You hear everything about how cannabis is linked to psychosis, and very little about the links with poor dietary habits. Whilst cannabis remains banned in this country, fast food producers are still free to promote all sorts of harmful shit to our kids, hydrogenated fats, energy drinks, etc.

[B.Basher]

Hehe, i'm definitely not saying I agree with politicians. Quite the opposite. I feel I have a built-in precognition that means I automatically discard the theories of any politician or religious figure.

Don't you just love how everytime a kids film comes out, it's plastered all over Burger King and McDonalds? It's like "Do you love Spiderman 3, then come to Burger King and get a free toy!!! (onlywithanextravaluemealcertaintermsandconditions applyconsumptionmayresultincoronarydiseaseandextre mepaininthelowerabdomen)"
If kids were a little more intelligent, they'd be like "What the fuck does Spiderman have to do with Burger King :wtf:" .

:thumbsup:

[Staurm]

Yeah the capitalist do put out quite a web of deceit these days.

Thanks for the rep B.Basher. This has been a good debate.