Quote Originally Posted by afghooey
That's not really what I meant, as that would imply that I'm saying that god's existence is limited only to a concept.

My point is that certain things (like beauty, as one of many examples) aren't tangible enough to where we can find an object and slap a label on it and say "There, that's beauty." Beauty isn't something a person discovers. One can see beauty in just about everything if one has the right mindset, because beauty is something that we create whenever we percieve something as beautiful. Just because we create beauty doesn't mean that it isn't real. Just because it's less tangible and can't be adapted to language doesn't mean that it's any less significant.

In the same way, when you experience divinity, it's not something that you can put down in words or explain to others, quite simply because it's something you have to participate in to understand. I could explain trying to ride a bicycle for hours, but you won't fully understand until you ride it yourself. Likewise, I could go on trying to explain God until I don't have a breath left in my body to do so, but until you experience divinity for yourself my words will be as empty to you as symbols with no meaning behind them.
I can see your point, but it's just like motivating yourself to do something.. it's what you think about it that matters, and if you deeply believe in something, then your mind will trick you into viewing that as real. If you don't believe or have confidence in what you're doing, then the simple fact that you thought about it will change the outcome. This is a documented thing, and it's in part self deception, true believer syndrome, and wishful thinking.

That is why I don't deny that people can experience "divine" experiences, bursts of strength or motivation to do something after a prayer -- if you believe the outcome of a prayer to be positive, then it will very likely be (within the bounds of the reasonable, of course). For this very reason I don't deny that people can feel good about their religion, but if you think about it deeply, it's coming from your own mind.. and I know it might be hard to reach that deep, as for instance I couldn't see stuff that I can clearly see after I quit smoking (tobacco). I was in denial and throwing away things that I knew were relevant and labelling them irrelevant.

The thought process isn't perfect, and as you may know there are several known biases.. to get to the bottom of it you need to recognize our thinking isn't perfect and teach yourself to detect and correct your own thinking when you notice it happening.

If you clear your mind of all preconceptions you have of religion, and from a purely logical and reasonable point you think about the issue, you'll arrive at the only possible answer: god most likely doesn't exist (nobody can't say it doesn't exist for sure, purely for the same reason as we can't say the tooth fairy really doesn't exist, it's just highly unlikely she does..).

To what extend your mind will block out your thought process to prevent you from going into a fuse because of the radical change, I couldn't know. I have experienced it with cigarettes, but religion is something that is indocrinated in us from a very early age (I was religious until I was 12 or something, simply because my parents were catholics too and I didn't know any better), and it must be hard to shake off.
darth stoner Reviewed by darth stoner on . How much further can you pull back? First God was in the sky. We explored the sky and learned what was really up there. Then God was in space, beyond the sky. We explored space and learned what was really out there. Now God is in another dimension? Come one. When we're able to explore other dimensions, where will your God run to hide from science? In other news, here's a fun video: YouTube - Rational Response Squad takes on Christians on ABC Rating: 5