Quote Originally Posted by reaper666
We basically perceive physical matter in its true form (with our physical senses) and this can be proven mathematically
Really?? Well, though im not a mathematic, i have enough knowledge in math and would like very much too see such demonstration.

Theorem:
Starting from x+0=x, x.1=x, x+y=y+x, ...
Proof:
...
... (lots of math here)
...
So, we conclude the outside world is real. Q.E.D.


Would???

Quote Originally Posted by reaper666
Some people have perfect vision and perfect pitch and do see the world as it really is,
I dont think so... for one, our senses are pretty limited. For example, our vision only can see a small strip of the electromagnetic spectrum, that we call light and colors. But there is a large range of light (or rather electromagnetical waves), like ultra-violet, infra-red, x-ray, radio waves, etc, we cant see. And they are as part of the world as the colors are. So, even the vision of the perfectest people is a fragmented vision. We see only a very small part of the world. Thus we sould not trust so much in this fragmented vision, as if it were the vision of everything thats exist.
Our perception of the world is heavily limited by our senses and our mind, so what we see as "the world" in only the very small part of it that was filtered and understood by our mind. Not the world itself.
Note that I gave a materialistic argument above. I only talked about "physical" things.

But the quote below goes even further:

Quote Originally Posted by xblackdogx
But when we take into account that anything we perceive and would declare to be a "living, solid thing" is just energy being processed and projected into the back of the brain indicates that SEEING is not proof of anything. Quantum physics has provided evidence to support that "PHYSICAL" things don't exist, which would make any transformation done "by the eyes" a result of a change from the brain....
And I agree completly.