Can we agree on this?

[Stemis516]

see i think that even if you call yourself an athiest, your still using faith

you dont know for certain god doesnt exist...you cant prove he doesnt exist anymore than a theist can prove he does exist...everything that isnt a clear cut fact takes faith to believe.....you dont need to have faith to believe that 2+2 = 4....because its been proven and its a truth....god however, we know nothing about, so any stance you take on him whether its the chirstian god, allah, a flying spaghetti monster or no god at all takes faith

just because we believe something is true does not make it true....i believe there is a god....is there one? in all honesty i really dont know, but i believe that when i die i will find out....keep in mind, i have a very good chance of being completely wrong with my faith

[mrdevious]

see i think that even if you call yourself an athiest, your still using faith

you dont know for certain god doesnt exist...you cant prove he doesnt exist anymore than a theist can prove he does exist...everything that isnt a clear cut fact takes faith to believe.....you dont need to have faith to believe that 2+2 = 4....because its been proven and its a truth....god however, we know nothing about, so any stance you take on him whether its the chirstian god, allah, a flying spaghetti monster or no god at all takes faith

just because we believe something is true does not make it true....i believe there is a god....is there one? in all honesty i really dont know, but i believe that when i die i will find out....keep in mind, i have a very good chance of being completely wrong with my faith

An interesting post stemis, to me it seems you nailed the issue right on the head, but also got it wrong. You're absolutely right that no atheist can know for sure that god doesn't exist, like the flying spagetti monster. But that's why atheism is not a matter of faith, at least not on the level of faith in god. A proper atheist doesn't purporte to know the existence of god, he/she knows that not a single piece of sufficient evidence has been presented. I don't even have faith that the flying spagetti monster doesn't exist, I just don't have a single reason to believe in it. But the important issue here is that even if you can attribute atheism to faith, the extension of such faith to everything non-existent makes the god-hypothesis no more valid than everything imaginary.... unless of course sufficient evidence were to be provided.

[Coelho]

Well... i think we must use the word faith in an wider sense.
If somebody only believes in things based upon logical reasons, then i would say this people have faith in the reason, or in other words, this people believes that the reason is the ultimate way to know the things.
But, the rational thinking is just one way of thinking, among many others, and we can not prove its is "truer" or "falser" that another ways of thinking, like intuitive, for example. Thats why i say to believe in the reason is a matter of faith too.

[Stemis516]

show me evidence that he doesnt exist then

[Tanarus]

Mr dev, while i agree with most of what you belive and what you say (form lurker here) i think you are contradicting yourself. A true atheist is saying that god dosent exist because there is no reason or fact to support God. Faith is needed to believe in God, but also needed to not believe something as well. It takes faith to say God exists as well as God dosent exist. And that there is a chance one or even both sides are wrong. All of that takes faith. By 'your' definition of faith, "It's a way of justifying an irrational form of reasoning by wrapping it in a pretty package labeled "faith". But when you whipe away the euphamism, it really just means "if you believe hard enough, that will make it true"."
it takes faith either way you look at it

[rimbaegeus]

I think the issue is quite simple. It is Science's mission to explain the "how" of things, and Religion's mission to explain the "why" of things.

With that in mind, the universe is one of empericals. There can only be one explaination of "why" and one of "how." Regardless, since all can agree humans are fallible, this means that every person must respect one another's "why," while the "how" can still be debated, as we still have empirical evidence lying around to explain that which is.

The real connundrum, however, can be realized when likening Religion to a child's education. If a child errs and believes that two sets of two total five, we correct the child. We do not want the child to believe anything false without reason. To this, it seems natural to respond that since we don't lie to our children (except for the sake of some education, as Socrates would say), we shouldn't allow adults to believe that which is false.

However, since religious evidence is not emperical, and is based largely on testimony, we can always assume there is a possiblity for doubt on the part of the believer, and imperfection as well.

It is, however, interesting to note that amongst humans, for thousands of years, testimony was considered the strongest type of evidence.

[jdmarcus59]

I think it all comes down to faith. You either believe something or you don't. There are no facts. I think that for every scientific fact the athiest provides, there's a counter from a different scientist that makes science fit with the word of God. Since we weren't around at the beginning, we have no clue on how we got here. What we think may have happened to start it all comes down to us trusting in someone else. Agreed?

:beatdeadhorse: It always comes down to faith. Some put their faith in man, and others in God.

if you think that man is the answer, then I think the qustion must

be wrong, for man has been in charge now for to long, and just look around

were killing everyone..

[Frank_The_Tank]

i was jus pondering on the thought that science was created by satan to destroy faith and keep people sinning because in their minds they believe in science and it give them an excuse to do wat ever the fuck they want. catch my drift kinda?? weed turns me into a philosipher(spelling)

[Nor.Cal Smoker]

I put my faith in to karma and intuition. I believe that when something feels wrong, it more than likely is wrong. And if everybody treated each other the way they would like to be treated all the problems that man has now would slowly disipate.:S5:

[RichieRich]

Hey Pass...nice topic man!!!

I can say that I have faith that my kitchen chair will hold my weight if I sit in it. But it isnt really faith until I actually sit down in it and I see if I fall to the ground or if the chair will hold my weight. The object in which you are putting your faith is the true question here. Christians put their faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross and his resurrection from the dead. Paul said if Christ has not been raised from the dead, then your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. (1 Cor 15)

Faith to me is Trust and sole reliance (upon Jesus). For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourself but is a gift from God. (Eph 2:8)
Once again I put my usual disclaimer here about not wanting to offend anyone....Peace...:jointsmile: