Quote Originally Posted by hazetwostep
jesus also appears in writings of Josephus (who was NOT a follower or believer)...

here is a question Bobby...

According to the Bible, those who do not believe in and accept Jesus as their Savior cannot go to heaven. God created a place for those (both angelic and human) who do not believe. This place is called "Hell" and is described as a place of complete seperation from God as well as utter torture and misery (fire and brimstone).

If God truly is love, then why did he create hell to add more misery to eternal seperation from HIMSELF? That seems to contradict who he says he is. What would God have to gain or prove from not only eternally seperating himself from them, but actually trying to add more to the misery of eternal seperation by adding other forms of misery???

understood that sin cannot be in a perfect place, so sinners cannot enter heaven... that is logical. why would he try to add more misery?!?!?!?! it isn't to teach the beings a lesson since there is no redemption after damnation. isn't eternal seperation enough without the extra torture???

or is the Bible inaccurate in its description of hell...?
Ok so I want to break this down a little bit...."According to the Bible, those who do not believe in and accept Jesus as their Savior cannot go to heaven."

I would disagree with this statement somewhat. According to Romans 1, God has clearly given people knowledge of himself through conscience and nature. And the wrath of God is revealed against godlessness and wickedness and people who have knowledge of God but choose not to follow and glorify him. I don't think that this means EVERYONE does this or has done this. (Resorting to total depravity and idolatry) I think people will be accountable to the amount of knowledge that they have available and what they do with that. For many who lived before Jesus and others who have never heard of Jesus this means nature, conscience, and the invisible qualities of God. Which leads me to my next point that is the doctrine of Rewards and punishments.

The bible clearly teaches that there are different rewards, crowns, and degrees of punishment for those who do right and wrong. Jesus clearly told people to store up treasure in heaven (Matt 6:20 Luke 18:22). Paul teaches that our works will be tested and will survive or be burned up. (1 Cor 3:14-15)
There are many other passages as well that teach the same thing.

The wages of all sin is death. That is a fact regardless (spirtual and physical). But the only way I can give an example of the degrees of heaven and hell would be a sliding scale. 1 to 10 (Heaven) and -1 to -10 (Hell). I would say that the lake of fire that was created for the devil and the angels that rebelled would be the -10 place (eternal agony and punishment). I would say that not accepting Jesus would put you in the camp of -1. And then what you did from there would determine what your degree of punishment would be and where you would land.

Maybe -1 is a paradise compared to earth. Maybe its just seperation from God and is full of sorrow. I don't think anyone knows. Maybe +1 is paradise beyond anything we can imagine.
I am reminded of that wonderful verse that says "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."

Sorry this is so long...peace....:jointsmile: