Thought you ladies may be interested..

[Chronic Chrissy]

Does it pay taxes? Does it have to wait in line at the DMV? Does it need identification? Does it get angry? Fall in love? Does it laugh? Cry? Dream?

No. It's not a person.

In the second trimester the answer is yes to the actual human requirements. Those other poor excuses for a rebuttal are easily not some thing a child under the age of 5 needs, does it make pre-schooler any less human.

napolitana869
I completely understand and support a decision like that and would do so myself. But that is still a medicle reason to have a abortion which the law allows.

Chronic Chrissy Reviewed by Chronic Chrissy on 04-23-2007. Thought you ladies may be interested.. ..this is a bummer, except those who oppose abortion. here you go Rating: 5

[Gatekeeper777]

Does it pay taxes? Does it have to wait in line at the DMV? Does it need identification? Does it get angry? Fall in love? Does it laugh? Cry? Dream?

No. It's not a person.

roflmao
My grandmother never drove so so she never waited in line at the DMV!]
Most welfare recipiants dont pay taxes!
all illeagle aliens dont have ID.
And they are people.
as far as if it is sentiant...... I know PEOPLE who are 40 years old and I wonder if they are seniant.
But studies have been done. What would they have to dream about? The big one eyed spitting cobra?

You dont want kids keep it in your pants, or get protection, but if you do get one be responsible, there are thousands of childless couples LIKE MYSELF!
Who would love to adopt a baby,rather then kill it because its parents only wanted to get off.
But if you are going to kill them at least make use of their stem cells to help the poeple that are here now.
What a waste. kill the kid then toss away a possible cure for hundereds of ailments.
Would you be so much for abortion if you were still in the womb? Or were you born with a pro choice banner in hand? I would expect if you were born holding any sign it said" I dont pay taxes, i dont love anyone yet,i9 dont have no dreams yet....but i am human.
weather your 12 weeks old or 36 weeks old in the womb conception=kid!

[Purple Banana]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

[Polymirize]

In the second trimester the answer is yes to the actual human requirements. Those other poor excuses for a rebuttal are easily not some thing a child under the age of 5 needs, does it make pre-schooler any less human.

The thing is, it's not a poor excuse for a rebuttal. A poor excuse for a joke maybe, but not really a rebuttal.

Your's however, immediately jumps to discussing the 2nd trimester. And then Gatekeeper mentions some 36 weeks period... Regardless, we're not talking about 2nd trimester, we were talking about fertilized eggs. Changing the subject entirely doesn't make for a very solid rebuttal either...

Or, were you trying to be funny? :wtf:

[Chronic Chrissy]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

The rape victim can have an abortion in the first trimester.
as for men having no say I think that is wrong, both made the baby both should have a choice, it's unfortunate that women are the ones to sacrifice their body for 9 months, but it is also unfortunate when a possible excited father is over ruled and robbed of his potential child. Where's the choice in that?

[rebgirl420]

I am pro choice- simply put, if you're a man, you should not be the one deciding the fate of women, particularly if you don't hold an MD Liscence.

What about rape? Do you think the emotional tolls to the mother and child are worth it? Hell no.

EXACTLY!!!! Well said!

[Chronic Chrissy]

The thing is, it's not a poor excuse for a rebuttal. A poor excuse for a joke maybe, but not really a rebuttal.

Your's however, immediately jumps to discussing the 2nd trimester. And then Gatekeeper mentions some 36 weeks period... Regardless, we're not talking about 2nd trimester, we were talking about fertilized eggs. Changing the subject entirely doesn't make for a very solid rebuttal either...

Or, were you trying to be funny? :wtf:

How did I miss this?
The original article is regaurding the second trimester on, since unless there is an emergency situation NO DOCTOR WILL ABORT A BABY IN THE THIRD TRIMESTER, that leaves only the second trimester. So this talk about ferilized eggs is off topic because by the second trimester. I'm not sure if people hear understand just what that cluster of cells has grown into.

A regular pregnancy is 40weeks, really ten months not nine, but nine caledar months.
The Second Trimester (Weeks 13â??27)
Development. The second trimester marks a period during which the developing fetus becomes active, and begins to move, kick and swallow. Around the fifth month of pregnancy, the fetus gains the ability to turn from side to side or head over heels. It is usually around this point in the pregnancy (between the 18th and 22nd weeks) that most women experience "quickening", or the ability to feel fetal movement. It is also during this stage that the fetus begins to sleep at regular intervals. By the end of the second trimester the fetus is around 8 to 12 inches long and weighs up to 1 pound.

Here's some more
Fetal development during the second trimester includes the following:

The fetus kicks, moves, and can turn from side to side.


The eyes have been gradually moving to the front of the face and the ears have moved from the neck to the sides of the head. The fetus can hear the mother's voice.


A creamy white substance (called vernix caseosa, or simply vernix) begins to appear on the fetus and helps to protect the thin fetal skin. Vernix is gradually absorbed by the skin, but some may be seen on babies even after birth.

The fetus is developing reflexes such as swallowing and sucking.

The fetus can respond to certain stimuli.

The placenta is fully developed.

The brain will undergo its most important period of growth from the 5th month on.

Fingernails have grown on the tips of the fingers and toes, and the fingers and toes are fully separated.

The fetus goes through cycles of sleep and wakefulness.

Skin is wrinkly and red, covered with soft, downy hair (called lanugo).

Hair is growing on the head of the fetus.

Fat begins to form on the fetus.

Eyelids are beginning to open and the eyebrows and eyelashes are visible.

Fingerprints and toeprints have formed.(possible form of ID if you think of it)

Rapid growth is continuing in fetal size and weight.
The 20th week marks the halfway point of the pregnancy.

More...
Week 13: Baby flexes and kicks
You can't feel it yet, but your baby can move in a jerky fashion â?? flexing the arms and kicking the legs. This week, your baby might even be able to put a thumb in his or her mouth.

Your baby's eyelids are fused together to protect his or her developing eyes. Tissue that will become bone is developing around your baby's head and within the arms and legs. Tiny ribs may soon appear.

Here's another.

2nd TRIMESTER

@ 13 weeks:
***Vigorous fetal activity is observed: the child can kick, turn feet, curl and fan toes, make a fist, move thumbs, bend wrists, turn head, open mouth, press lips tightly together, jump and wave arms. (2,10)
***Breathing is practiced. (2)

@ 14 weeks:
***Most body surfaces are sensitive to pain. (5)
***Delicate finger movements present. (6)

@ 16 weeks:
***Child grasps with hands, swims and turns somersaults, fan toes, vigorous moving and kicking. Thumb sucking observed. (2,7)
***Child hears and reacts to external sounds: Classical music has a calming effect, while hard rock music has an agitating effect on the child. (7)

@ 18 weeks:
***Mother first feels baby's movements. (2)

@ 20 weeks:
***Clear sleep patterns evident. (2,7)
***A slamming door will provoke activity. (2)
***Child scratches himself. (7)
***Mother senses punching, kicking and elbowing by child on a regular basis. (7)
***Vocal cords now functional and used to cry. (7)
***Yawning begins. (6)

@ 21 weeks:
***Child documented during fetal surgery via hysterotomy to reach out of motherâ??s uterus and grasp surgeonâ??s finger with vigorous hand grasp. (11)
***Babies borne alive at this premature age can survive, but require intensive care. (12)

@ 24 weeks:
***Child sticks out tongue. (13)

Here are abortion methods used at different times during the pregnancy
Abortion Methods

First pic is a 9 month aborted fetus
The second 13 week old fetus
The third a fetus at 16 weeks
The last a fetus at 7 weeks
This is what we are talking about, not eggs and embryos, this is only the begining of the second trimester.

[Polymirize]

Oh I'm sorry. You're still talking about the article, and I was actually responding to the discussion that developed in the actual thread. Horrible how people lose sight of what they're supposed to be talking about huh?

Anyway... I'm going to say something that I don't even particularly believe but which I feel might be necessary to make a point. If you have a weak stomach, you may want to stop reading now. I'll wait a second to allow you to decide...

...

...


Fuck it. I think you should be able to abort the child anytime before the beginning of the second stage of labor. Until it's crowning abortion is perfectly viable.
Until the fetus goes through the birth canal, that one valve in his heart (I forget the name but you probably know it, you seem to have an amazing grasp on this vocabulary) does not close, and he's not breathing for himself. What do you call it when something lives inside you and grows, using the host organism for nutriention?
Right, a parasitic relationship. As long as it exists as such, it's completely the parents call as to when it comes out...


And no, it's still not the point. Because Gatekeeper thinks life begins at conception and I disagree. That was the point. You've got fantastic cut and paste skills though. I'm impressed.

[Gatekeeper777]

so when does life begin Polymirize? IYHO

[Polymirize]

so when does life begin Polymirize? IYHO

For discussion purposes, I'll take the other pole and say when the fetus is viable to survive on it's own (and no, I don't mean it can fend for itself, but you would have to cut the umbilical cord).