hey all, well they'll be about two weeks old on Sunday, guess i'm not giving them enough time, i used cfl's to start the first few then put them under the mh and they look great,,,maybe i'll use cfl's for the first two weeks them put em under the mh...i know cfl's are the new craze...but everyone says mh and then hps is the ticket...i'll do some further searching, if they don't start shaping up after sunday, i'll put em under cfl's and see what happens