Quote Originally Posted by halfassedjediknight
to have no beginning is logically and physically impossible to even exist in the first place. if you never began, you never 'were'.

I think that this is just a tool christians use to say 'you just have to believe'.

of course theres no logical or even reasonable explanation for this. so its easy to say 'you just have to believe'.
That is incorrect. To have no beginning is not logically impossible. It may be physically impossible, as you understand physics, but that still doesn't mean it is logically impossible. We live in 4 dimensions (that we know of... we may discover more someday). They are 3 dimensions of physical space (length, width, and height) and one other dimension... time. It is theoretically logically possible to have something exist in only one dimension (that is the definition of a "line" in mathematics and geometry... both logical sciences). And it is even possible to exist outisde of all dimensions that we know of (in advanced mathematics). If God exists outside of the dimension of time (a theoretic logical possibility) then it is possible for him to have no beginning... he just Is and always has Been. If he exists outside of our spacial dimensions it is possible for him to be invisible or even omni-present.

P.S. - Earlier in this thread (on pg 1) you said you were to logical to believe. I'm not sure that's true. There are extremely logical people who are faithful believers in religions such as Christianity or faithful agnostics. You're just too uncertain of the facts that have been presented to you so far in your life to believe one way or another... I wouldn't say your to logical though. You may be logical, but your not "to" logical. To say so implies people who do believe are not logical enough.

If you don't think there are very logical Christians out there, take a look at Ravi Zacharias (http://www.rzim.org/). He's gotten standing ovations at Harvard University and other respected institutions for his presentations and discussions concerning modern culture and ideas as they relate to logical reasoning and faith. If you'd like I'll send you some of his CD's burned.

The U.S. head of the Human Genome Project, Francis S. Collins, is a Christian. He is a very logical fellow... he would have to be to lead our countries ambitious effort to analyze the human genetic code in its ultimate molecular detail and to succeed several years ago in mapping all human DNA.

Sorry I've only mentioned Christians. I'm sure there are logical believers in in atheism too, I just happen to be a Christian so mostly know of examples from that side of "belief".