atheism vs. agnostic

[c of green]

religion is for the weak minded people that can't handle life "alone".The only "God" is mother earth and she should not be prayed to just respected and enjoyed.what does that make me?

[halfassedjediknight]

God has always been. From everlasting. He was not created. He is the physical matter that has always existed. Do you believe that matter was created or has it always existed?

to have no beginning is logically and physically impossible to even exist in the first place. if you never began, you never 'were'.

I think that this is just a tool christians use to say 'you just have to believe'.

of course theres no logical or even reasonable explanation for this. so its easy to say 'you just have to believe'.

if he is the physical matter that has always existed, then what does that mean? what physical matter has always existed? not stars, not planets. they originate from something, im not sure what since im no astronomer or anything, but they didnt just appear from nowhere, and they sure havnt been here for all eternity 'with no beginning'.

everything has a beginning, otherwise it wouldnt progress into anything at all. it doesnt make sense.

[jsn9333]

to have no beginning is logically and physically impossible to even exist in the first place. if you never began, you never 'were'.

I think that this is just a tool christians use to say 'you just have to believe'.

of course theres no logical or even reasonable explanation for this. so its easy to say 'you just have to believe'.

That is incorrect. To have no beginning is not logically impossible. It may be physically impossible, as you understand physics, but that still doesn't mean it is logically impossible. We live in 4 dimensions (that we know of... we may discover more someday). They are 3 dimensions of physical space (length, width, and height) and one other dimension... time. It is theoretically logically possible to have something exist in only one dimension (that is the definition of a "line" in mathematics and geometry... both logical sciences). And it is even possible to exist outisde of all dimensions that we know of (in advanced mathematics). If God exists outside of the dimension of time (a theoretic logical possibility) then it is possible for him to have no beginning... he just Is and always has Been. If he exists outside of our spacial dimensions it is possible for him to be invisible or even omni-present.

P.S. - Earlier in this thread (on pg 1) you said you were to logical to believe. I'm not sure that's true. There are extremely logical people who are faithful believers in religions such as Christianity or faithful agnostics. You're just too uncertain of the facts that have been presented to you so far in your life to believe one way or another... I wouldn't say your to logical though. You may be logical, but your not "to" logical. To say so implies people who do believe are not logical enough.

If you don't think there are very logical Christians out there, take a look at Ravi Zacharias (http://www.rzim.org/). He's gotten standing ovations at Harvard University and other respected institutions for his presentations and discussions concerning modern culture and ideas as they relate to logical reasoning and faith. If you'd like I'll send you some of his CD's burned.

The U.S. head of the Human Genome Project, Francis S. Collins, is a Christian. He is a very logical fellow... he would have to be to lead our countries ambitious effort to analyze the human genetic code in its ultimate molecular detail and to succeed several years ago in mapping all human DNA.

Sorry I've only mentioned Christians. I'm sure there are logical believers in in atheism too, I just happen to be a Christian so mostly know of examples from that side of "belief".

[halfassedjediknight]

im still not buying into it. it isnt fathomable to me.
all four dimensions are measurements. if there is a dimension that god resides and has no beginning, where is the measurement? and omnipresence is just unbelievable to me as well. to understand ones potential to be in all places at once boggles my mind. youd have to be traveling at some sort of ridiculous speed or something. if i were a physics major, i would be able to argue more on these things but i major in biology so its a bit out of my league.

its all greek to me, and doesnt seem probable. doesnt make sense.