gay marriage what do you think?

[Torog]

What if one of your kids were gay? Would you punish them or expell them from the family? And you make it sound like a giant conspiracy that the gays are setting up. Do you think anyone really wants to be gay? There are a few too many self loathing gays that prevent themselves from coming out of the closet... it would be much easier for them just to be straight. Unfortunately, they can't. I can understand that you're just wayyy too close minded against gays, since more than likely you grew up in a racist area, or an area full of bigotry and elitests. I'm sorry you had to grow up in that area, but don't take it out on people different than you. And socialism and communism has nothing to do with homosexuality, and isn't all that bad, it's just a different ideaology, an UNAMERICAN ideaology none the less. I'm not for either of them though, I'm a democrat/liberal (please don't tell me they are the same thing ). I'm really trying not to stereotype all texans, but I guess most of them are living in the past.

I grow up in an area where prejudism is pretty much just a joke, like some kids will make racist jokes, and will just joke around with the word nigger, but nothing serious. Racism is a taught concept, so until you stop living pre-1960's, we'll never progress in society. America is supposed to be a salad bowl of all sorts of people, and how are we going to consider ourselves land of the free when not everyone has the same rights? Land of the free in the sense of no slavery (except the arabs in Iraq who we've conquered, taken over their country, and changed the government to what we believe, which I don't think is right if they didn't really want it, and we have no way of knowing), but mental slavery. Free your mind of the rules your parents set, and learn to love your brother. God put them on Earth for a reason. (I know you believe in God).

Thanks Torog,
<3<3 Purple Potatoes

Howdy Purple Potatoes,

You ask:"What if one of your kids was gay ?"

Well..I have only one child,a daughter,praise the Lord-that she ain't gay..and may God have mercy on those who are.

What you don't seem to understand,is that for me and billions of religious folks,homosexuality..is a sin. This is not a question of civil rights..it's a question of how to love the sinner and hate the sin..as well as how to stop the spread of disease and death,that is the curse of homosexuality. Did you know-that in Saudia Arabia,homosexuals are put to the sword ? Why don't gays and those who support them-ever ask for a condemnation of shari'a law regarding homosexuals ?

You claim that socialism and communism don't have a connection-but in fact,they do. The reason is,is that the homosexual agenda,serves to divide America and attack Christianity,destroy family values and promote the spread of disease and the resulting logistical burden on health and human services,couple that with addictive drugs..and you have a recipe for disaster-which is what socialists and commies want,so they can destroy America,from within..and step in with their ideaology,as a solution.

If God put gays on earth for a reason,it would be to see how faithful we are to His Word,when He said that" man shall not lay with man,as he would his wife"..and to see how we can the love the sinner and hate the sin.

My daught was molested,at the age of five,by a bi-sexual paedophile,so I have a big chip on my shoulder-towards gays and those who claim that homosexuality is harmless and a 'right'. I realize,that most gays ain't that way and that I should not judge them all,by the actions of a few..or even one.

My parents didn't teach me to hate gays..or minorities,we are Christian and know that we must love our brothers and sisters,however,the Bible taught me that homosexuality,is a sin,in the eyes of God..and I must heed that and find a way to love the sinner and hate the sin. I will not abandon my faith or go against God,for the sake of political-correctness.

As for stereotyping Texans goes,it's the conservative folks of faith,in small towns that are viewing homosexuality as a sin,whereas,cities like Houston and Dallas,are enclaves of liberalism and gays,and those who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin.

In today's world of pc'ism,the term "progressive society",means the destruction of the traditional family and traditional values,and is really an attack against the basic foundations that all societies need,in order to thrive. That term,is also linked to Karl Marx and socialism.

Have a good one...Torog

[Arioch]

Child abuse, sexual abuse, spousal abuse, and other criminal acts are mainly committed by heterosexual males. Warfare is generally initiated by heterosexual males, usually under the rubric of some religious ideology. The spread of AIDS in most of the world is by heterosexual males. In Africa, the highest incidence rate of AIDS is among 12-year-old girls, the result of warfare by heterosexual males. The only righteous conclusion we can come to is that a better world would result from atheist gay men donating sperm to propagate the species, while heterosexual men like Torog are put to the sword.

[PurplePotatoes]

Howdy Purple Potatoes,

You ask:"What if one of your kids was gay ?"

Well..I have only one child,a daughter,praise the Lord-that she ain't gay..and may God have mercy on those who are.

What you don't seem to understand,is that for me and billions of religious folks,homosexuality..is a sin. This is not a question of civil rights..it's a question of how to love the sinner and hate the sin..as well as how to stop the spread of disease and death,that is the curse of homosexuality. Did you know-that in Saudia Arabia,homosexuals are put to the sword ? Why don't gays and those who support them-ever ask for a condemnation of shari'a law regarding homosexuals ?

You claim that socialism and communism don't have a connection-but in fact,they do. The reason is,is that the homosexual agenda,serves to divide America and attack Christianity,destroy family values and promote the spread of disease and the resulting logistical burden on health and human services,couple that with addictive drugs..and you have a recipe for disaster-which is what socialists and commies want,so they can destroy America,from within..and step in with their ideaology,as a solution.

If God put gays on earth for a reason,it would be to see how faithful we are to His Word,when He said that" man shall not lay with man,as he would his wife"..and to see how we can the love the sinner and hate the sin.

My daught was molested,at the age of five,by a bi-sexual paedophile,so I have a big chip on my shoulder-towards gays and those who claim that homosexuality is harmless and a 'right'. I realize,that most gays ain't that way and that I should not judge them all,by the actions of a few..or even one.

My parents didn't teach me to hate gays..or minorities,we are Christian and know that we must love our brothers and sisters,however,the Bible taught me that homosexuality,is a sin,in the eyes of God..and I must heed that and find a way to love the sinner and hate the sin. I will not abandon my faith or go against God,for the sake of political-correctness.

As for stereotyping Texans goes,it's the conservative folks of faith,in small towns that are viewing homosexuality as a sin,whereas,cities like Houston and Dallas,are enclaves of liberalism and gays,and those who don't believe that homosexuality is a sin.

In today's world of pc'ism,the term "progressive society",means the destruction of the traditional family and traditional values,and is really an attack against the basic foundations that all societies need,in order to thrive. That term,is also linked to Karl Marx and socialism.

Have a good one...Torog

Torog,

I'm all for family values, don't get me wrong, but the majority of sins are CHOICE. I'm trying really hard to think of a sin that is on the genetic level, other than homosexuality. It says that homosexuality is a sin in the Bible, but you must consider that the Bible was NOT written by God himself. There are fallacies within the Bible, and the Bible was written my man. To me, I believe homosexuality is something that happens on the genetic level, and not controllable. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible reflected the beliefs of society back then, rather than what God said. In the bible, it says that slavery is okay, if the slave is from a neighboring nation. "Love thy brother"... but it's okay for him to be your slave?

On the political level, I understand that homosexuality is a sin, and you don't want a sin to become acceptable. But think of many, many other sins that are encouraged and considered acceptable. Gambling, foul language, pre-marital sex, and many sex practices... but I don't think God is just going to throw in the towel and send you to Hell for one sin. If he was, we'd all be damned from the start. Marriage really isn't a religious thing anymore, it's just two people promising eachother they're going to live and love eachother until they die or divorce. If it was a religious thing, then why wouldn't people take them seriously? The divorce rate is sky high in this country, which is obvious.

I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but at the same time I don't look down upon them as sinners and second class citizens. It's not their fault they're gay (well, I believe that). And when I say progress, I don't mean it in any terms of socialism, communism, destruction of family values, or any of that. I just mean it in a sense of making our world a better place, AKA, living and learning. Also the communist party and socialist party are a VERY small percentage of Americans population within the political spectrum. I'd say the Green party would even put those two parties to shame. But communism and socialism does work in small dosages, however. You could say the end of Laissez Faire during the great depression was viewed by conservatives as socialism/communism, but hey, it got us out of the hole we were in, although it hit the richer, greedy percent of the population that had much money at the time and were the only people that had anything to lose (which was a small percent of the population). If anything, I feel religion is dividing our country. Bombs in the name of Allah, political differences due to God, Atheists claiming that religion is being forced upon them, and the Mormons... well, I won't go into Mormons . But the point is, we HAVE to get along. If the Gays feel it's REALLY important that they are able to marry, just because they want the same rights as American citizens, then let them have it. You aren't sinning in the process of letting them marry, and you're not gay yourself. Although Democracy is the process of what the majority believes is what goes, It'd be better if there was a way to compromise, or if the voters could learn the process of give and take.

I can kind of understand what you're saying, even though I disagree with you. I'm really sorry about your daughter though, I sure as hell wouldn't be so forgiving. I mean, I wish your opinion was the same as mine, (but hey, I'd like it if people saw eye to eye with me on every level), but I'm pretty sure you're set in your ways. I'm not all that old, so I might not be completely in the game of politics, life, etc.

--P.P.

[moomoo]

im definatly for it-im not gay-i think everyone should have equal rights-and gays should be able to take in foster chilren as well. id rather see a foster kid with cultured gay parents than in a low life situation were their just into it for the checks!

[Nullific]

Hey Torog, any comment on my previous post? Oh no, I guess you shouldn't waste your time debating with bastard liberals.

What you don't seem to understand,is that for me and billions of religious folks,homosexuality..is a sin. This is not a question of civil rights..it's a question of how to love the sinner and hate the sin..as well as how to stop the spread of disease and death,that is the curse of homosexuality. Did you know-that in Saudia Arabia,homosexuals are put to the sword ? Why don't gays and those who support them-ever ask for a condemnation of shari'a law regarding homosexuals ?

So is premarital sex, but is that stopping anybody? Oh, and its also a sin for men to have long hair. According to the bible disobedient children should be stoned to death. Religion should not be law, especially not in a "free" country such as the United States. Shari'a law doesn't have a damn thing to do with homosexuals. It sounds like you're saying "at least we don't kill them".

You claim that socialism and communism don't have a connection-but in fact,they do. The reason is,is that the homosexual agenda,serves to divide America and attack Christianity,destroy family values and promote the spread of disease and the resulting logistical burden on health and human services,couple that with addictive drugs..and you have a recipe for disaster-which is what socialists and commies want,so they can destroy America,from within..and step in with their ideaology,as a solution.

Homosexual agenda? Im more tired of the christian conservative agenda myself. None of the homosexuals I know have any sort of "agenda", they're people just me and you (you are a person, right?) the only difference is that they prefer to be with others of the same or both sexes. You wouldn't have even suspected them of being homosexual.
What you're trying to do here is essentially the same thing Hitler did, you're saying homosexuals seek to destroy the nation and spread disease.

If God put gays on earth for a reason,it would be to see how faithful we are to His Word,when He said that" man shall not lay with man,as he would his wife"..and to see how we can the love the sinner and hate the sin.

Is this the same God that killed all those babies in egypt? Real nice.

[XTC]

I like how some people actually still think Marriage is sacred in this day and age. HA! IF you can get married in a drive thru- by some obese fat Elvis its not sacred. Hell, Michael Jackson was married once. I would say a moderate portion of people marry because Oh Yes people Money, Greed, Wealth. Come on Greed is the American Way nowadays Bush is a strong supporter of Greed and lies. Anyway to the Gay Topic. It seems like Torog knows A lot about this gay evil doers (maybe Tor is hidding something?). How they Recruit people. I wonder how they do this. Is there an application? and can a gay person get denied Recuritment. What are the Prequests. I once never had a gay person come up to me and try to "recruit" me. But I sure see a hell of lot of liberals and Christians doing so. And that they have this secret society of evil gays that prey on children. Yes they are plenty of sick fucks out there who pray on children, but saying there is a society of gays doing this? Please, who ever told you that was full of it. Another thing, A lot of psychologists and doctors STRONGLY believe that Homosexuality is Genetic. A less of a choice.

Torog, you do have to realized that most people have an open mind and don't follow your people's Chrisitan ways. I do believe in God, but I dont shove it down people throats till there ready to vomit. It also says in the bible not to judge anyone and only God shall judge people. Hell lets throw out the legal system and release Millions of rapists, murders, thieves and let them have their day with god, whenever that might be.

Torog, you're living in the past man, your polishing the brass on the titanic. You just have to accept that Most people now a days are open minded and accepting.

Why am I picking on Torog? When there were lots of other bigots? Well, I read between the lines of Torog's posts. He wouldnt mind if we started putting gays to death.

Now, I am not gay or anything, but people should be able to live their own life, as long as it doesnt harm anyone else. Rule of Thumb: Be Yourself

[XTC]

I hate to double post, but me and Nul seem to see eye to eye on things here. I can't wait for Tor's Opinion opps I mean... rebuttal

[Torog]

F*ck society, all you want to do is create a scapegoat, f*ck people taking responsibility for their own actions on their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness...jews, blacks, drug users, muslims, homosexuals all evil. How do you do it, why are these people so bad?
Oh, they must stray from God, God said they are bad so they must be devil worshipers... we need to pass legislation to control them because killing them would make us look bad.
What are morals? What are family "values"? Where did they come from your bible? Ever read the constitution, your bible can't control me so that makes you mad doesn't it? Since your bible can't control me you need laws to do it, so you try to make your bible law. F*ck your bible, f*ck your law. A person should be able to do what they please so long as they are not a harm to anyone else.
Do you seriously think homosexuals are a threat? Let me guess, they're worse than the muslims and terrorist...they're just as bad as those bastard liberals arn't they Torog?
Thats right, we seek to ruin what is it you hold so dearly, not your family...your religion and your book and the laws you try to pass based upon them. Why are we doing this?
Because you can't legislate morality. You can't stop me from doing drugs, drinking, gambling, speaking my mind against your beliefs, or having sex with whichever sex I prefer for however much I want to pay.
Its immoral you say?! But how is it hurting you? Oh, its not. Nor is it hurting your family, so long as these questionable activities are kept safe and legal.
You don't like it when people live how they want so you have to go and make criminals out of people who are not. In order to make them look bad you say they are a threat to family, that'll piss all the soccer moms off...then you bring in your religion because GOD forbid anybody have any freedom. So then the nation bans homosexual marriage and make homosexuals look like evil criminals.

You forget to mention how other animals have engaged in homosexual acts, or how stopping gays from getting married will have no effect on the fact that there are people who f*ck other people of their same gender.
You also don't seem to realized that this "issue" effects less than ten percent of the population.
No, gays are not conspiring against you or your perfect children safetly isolated from reality in your house with the two car garage and white fence, and you on the porch with a shotgun in one hand and a bible in the other.

Howdy Nullific,

I've never said that Jews,blacks or even peaceful muslims,if there is such a thing,are evil. In fact,my girlfriend is Jewish..and it's the democrappers who are being rascist and hateful,towards Condi Rice and Colin Powell..why is the Left being so rascist towars Condi and Powell,given that they are supposed to be the party of inclusion for blacks ? I'm on Israel's side and and I support the Jews,against Islam and all of their other enemies-and I believe that the US should continue all aid to Israel,and help to arm Her..I'm one of those Christians who believe that those nations who seek to destroy Israel-will be cursed by God.

The good thing about Christianity,is that none are forced to be Christians,it's purely voluntary. Whereas with Islam,many are forced to convert or be killed,they must pay a dhimmini tax,for the crime of being an infidel. Even as we speak,Christians around the world,are being tortured,murdered and sold into slavery-at the hands of muslims. I don't reckon ,that you will ever condemn that,because you seem to hate Christians and Christianity,with all of your heart.

I don't know where ya got yer schooling at,but much of western society,has laws based on Judaic and Biblical principles. For any society to be stable and productive,there have to be laws and a rule of law.

I think that all terrorists,of any stripe,are a much bigger threat at this time..however,when the gay radical agenda,forces it's way between children and their parents-in order to force them to be tolerant towards a un-natural deathstyle..they do constitute a grave threat to the order of society. Children in liberal school systems,especially those of Faith,are under a multi-pronged attack,from liberals,anti-religion types and gays.

Banning gay marriage,doesn't make gays criminals,but it does preserve and protect ,the sacred institution of marriage,which is meant to be for those of opposite sex,a traditional family,is what makes society strong. If gays succeed in being able to legally marry,then all of the other sexual deviants will step forward and demand their right to marry with their favorite goat-or the child they have been molesting..granting rights based on sexual deviancy,is a slippery slope.

You have it backwards,when ya say that this issue only affects 10% of the population-it's 10% of the population-that's affecting the other 90%. By destroying the building block of society,marriage,all of society,begins to crumble..and that affects everyone. We are not talking about animals engaging in homosexual acts,which is for power and control,not love..we're talking about humans.

I do have a Bible and a shotgun-just no front porch to sit on..so I use a lawn chair.

Have a good one...Torog

[Torog]

Howdy XTC,

You wrote:

"I like how some people actually still think Marriage is sacred in this day and age. HA! IF you can get married in a drive thru- by some obese fat Elvis its not sacred. Hell, Michael Jackson was married once. I would say a moderate portion of people marry because Oh Yes people Money, Greed, Wealth. Come on Greed is the American Way nowadays Bush is a strong supporter of Greed and lies. Anyway to the Gay Topic. It seems like Torog knows A lot about this gay evil doers (maybe Tor is hidding something?). How they Recruit people. I wonder how they do this. Is there an application? and can a gay person get denied Recuritment. What are the Prequests. I once never had a gay person come up to me and try to "recruit" me. But I sure see a hell of lot of liberals and Christians doing so. And that they have this secret society of evil gays that prey on children. Yes they are plenty of sick f*cks out there who pray on children, but saying there is a society of gays doing this? Please, who ever told you that was full of it. Another thing, A lot of psychologists and doctors STRONGLY believe that Homosexuality is Genetic. A less of a choice."

Marriage,is made sacred by God and the two who join,who believe that theirs is a sacred contract with God..therefore,it does not matter how one gits married,or where..if the two believe that they are joining together in sacred union and in a contract with God,that's what matters most. As far as me knowing alot about the coercive means that gays are employing against children in school and society at large,I could point you to the website- http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/ . Also,as a soldier,it behooves me to study the ways and means,of all enemies,both foreign and domestic..no matter how repulsed I may be. The attack at the basic building block of society,constitutes a domestic threat against America..just as surely as any foreign soldier or terrorist. It's one thing,for adults to engage in what they want behind closed doors..and an entirely different thing,when they come into the schools and discriminate against children of Faith,interposing themselves between the parent and child..and attempting to cram tolerance down their throats,and destroy all moral and religious values,that the parents wish to instill in their children.

"Torog, you do have to realized that most people have an open mind and don't follow your people's Chrisitan ways. I do believe in God, but I dont shove it down people throats till there ready to vomit. It also says in the bible not to judge anyone and only God shall judge people. Hell lets throw out the legal system and release Millions of rapists, murders, thieves and let them have their day with god, whenever that might be."

XTC,you need to realize,that most folks where I live,have a Christian view-point toward homosexuality,and many are far more redneck about it-than me..you think that I'm bad..you ain't seen nothing. I try to leave the judgeing to God,but I'm only human..and therefore imperfect and a sinner. I believe,that God wants us to live by his Commandments and Word,and that He does not want anarchy and chaos in society-so rapists,murderers and thieves,need to be judged by their peers and placed in jail,for the good of all. God judges the soul..we enact the rule of law as it applies in the physical realm.

"Torog, you're living in the past man, your polishing the brass on the titanic. You just have to accept that Most people now a days are open minded and accepting."

What you're talking about,is political correctness..not religious belief,those folks of Faith,are the majority in this country still. The 'open-mindedness' that you speak of,is promulgated by Hollywierd and the liberal media,both of whom,are only represenative of the minority of amoral relativists..it's 'perception management',on a grand scale.

"Why am I picking on Torog? When there were lots of other bigots? Well, I read between the lines of Torog's posts. He wouldnt mind if we started putting gays to death."

I do mind and I don't want any gays put to death..except for those who've committed capitol crimes..like the two gays who tortured and murdered,13 year old Jesse Dirkhising.

"Now, I am not gay or anything, but people should be able to live their own life, as long as it doesnt harm anyone else. Rule of Thumb: Be Yourself "

I agree with your last statement..not sure about that rule of thumb thing tho,my rule of thumb..is to be humble and grateful towards God,from Whom,all blessings flow.

Have a good one...Torog

[F L E S H]

Torog, there are other people on this board that don't support gay marriage, and are otherwise more conservative than most people here, but people like you genuinely frighten me. I'm scared that if there ever are enough people like you, then freedom will truly be out of our grasp, truly will we be living in a dictatorial theocracy.

You stand for everything that is WRONG in the US today. Your violence (not against us, but against all those you deem to be inacceptable, just becuase you read it somewhere), your hatred, your racism, your homophobia, your belief in 'communist conspiracies'.... For the love of God, who you say you obey, don't you see what your saying?

There is only one kind of person perpetuating hatred and violence against gays and those otherwise different from North Americans and Western Europeans, and that's people like you.

You ever read any histories about Hitler? Except for the Jews, who you say you love (strangely enough), you're exactly the same, it's scary. Just make a topic entitle "Mein Kampf" and get it over with, that's where you're headed.