humankind's search for origin

[hazetwostep]

I've also found in my studies that the manna in the book of Exodus and Numbers happens to be MAGIC MUSHROOMS! Therefore the ORIGINAL hebrew culture and society was a PSYCHEDELIC ONE!

sorry to disagree but think about how logical that statement. you are saying that for 40 years in the desert, the people of Israel received all of their nutrition from magic mushrooms??? come on now...

[hazetwostep]

Meh, we're curious and self-aware; it's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.

That, and our use of eating utensils.

(first person to get that reference gets rep hahahaha)

i just watched a video on primates that use utensils (tools) to eat certain foods!

[stinkyattic]

i just watched a video on primates that use utensils (tools) to eat certain foods!

termites... stick in mound... lick off termites. mm mm good.

[Mark Bryan]

sorry to disagree but think about how logical that statement. you are saying that for 40 years in the desert, the people of Israel received all of their nutrition from magic mushrooms??? come on now...

Let's see, Manna From Heaven They did bake it with bread and cakes,so they didn't just use shrooms alone.

[Staurm]

It seems like the most obvious things to ask really. So what's this all about then? Where in the hell did I just come from? I suppose if we had all been born at the exactly same time no-ne might have actually noticed that time and the rest of the universe also used to exist before we did, and it might not have occurred to anyone to ask.

[PureEvil760]

i am curious as to some people's opinions on this question.

why are humanbeings so curious to find their origins?

Because people know deep within that there is somthing wrong with thier waking consiousness..they know intuitively that somthing is not right.

[darth stoner]

Meh, we're curious and self-aware; it's one of the things that sets us apart from the animals.

That, and our use of eating utensils.

(first person to get that reference gets rep hahahaha)

We're also animals, and a few other species have passed the self awareness test too.

"Animals which have passed the mirror test are common chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons. Surprisingly, gorillas have not passed the test, although at least one specific gorilla, Koko, has passed the test; this is probably because gorillas consider eye contact an aggressive gesture and normally try to avoid looking each other in the face. Human children tend to fail this test until they are at least 1.5 to 2 years old [1]. Dogs, cats and 1 year old children, for example, usually react to a mirror in fear or curiosity, or simply ignore it, while birds often attack their own reflections."


Other apes have been seen using tools too. And tools are not specific to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, our ancient ancestors also used them.

Spoken language is what currently separates "them" from us, and the "consequences" of being able to manipulate language the way we do is what really makes the difference.

[Staurm]

We're also animals, and a few other species have passed the self awareness test too.

"Animals which have passed the mirror test are common chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, dolphins, elephants, humans and possibly pigeons. Surprisingly, gorillas have not passed the test, although at least one specific gorilla, Koko, has passed the test; this is probably because gorillas consider eye contact an aggressive gesture and normally try to avoid looking each other in the face. Human children tend to fail this test until they are at least 1.5 to 2 years old [1]. Dogs, cats and 1 year old children, for example, usually react to a mirror in fear or curiosity, or simply ignore it, while birds often attack their own reflections."


Other apes have been seen using tools too. And tools are not specific to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, our ancient ancestors also used them.

Spoken language is what currently separates "them" from us, and the "consequences" of being able to manipulate language the way we do is what really makes the difference.

Interesting, never heard of this mirror test before.

I am not sure its entirely valid to assume all other species donot have highly delevoped communication rituals though. Recorded patterns of bird song has been directly compared to patterns generated by simple algorithms on a computer. This suggest deterministic (and repeatable in form) patterns that may have a complex meaning to birds, yet are completely indiscernable to any ther species. In the same way they probably have no idea what we are babbling on about either.

[darth stoner]

I have thought about that too Staurm, but the use of complex language (such as ours) requires intelligence. Intelligence is possible without language, but language (again, complex like ours, not simple sounds or body language) isn't possible without intelligence. If any other animal had developed the kind of language we possess, I'm sure we'd know about it already.

Note that I'm not saying complex language isn't possible in "lower" animals in the future, because I very much think it is (not in all of them of course, as many even lack the means to produce language as we know it).

It's just that the simple fact that we're humans forces us to look at other animals from an human point of view (we're inherently biased). As a reverse example, we'd look pretty dumb to a cat, because we're not able to see him in poor light conditions, as they take that ability for granted. Point being, if they judged our intelligence based on the way they see the world, we'd look very dumb to them too.

[Staurm]

Hey I know plenty of folk with the ability to talk, but I wouldn't class them as intelligent! :-)

Joking aside, I think you are basing that logical reasoning on an invalid assumption of what intelligence is strictly defined as. It is also misleading to suggest that the only possible intelligent lingual construct is the one we humans use based collectively on our fragmented and objective perception of reality.

In spite of that, I think the odds are birds aren't having conversations on some dimension outwith our own comprehension. I'm more with your theory that many species have the potential to develop communicative skills in the form of an exhange of objective information, and that in the early days when humans started to talk they were probably high on mushrooms and rolling around on the grass making strange noises and laughing at themselves, but not quite realising why yet.