Many Mansions *Christian Discussion*

John 14 1-26

Lets discuss this a bit. Is Christ the only way to God, or did he simply create/show the bridge by which all mankind can travel? Is a literal belief in the person nescessary, or is there another way?

Please explain why you believe what you do, I'll share my views and we'll have ourselves a nice civilized discussion. (Quoting scripture is expected) I'll do the same. We'll keep it with in the limits of biblical text, and our personal views of it.

p.s. To those who are offended by this stuff: Do the right thing, and just stay away, unless you actually have something to contribute. :thumbsup:


Junk~

though i do love the philosophical aspects of spiritual discussion, having no faith in your mythology i'm afraid i'll be unable to join you.:sadcrying
have fun.:)

Do you have a view at all? That might contribute to the discussion? I'd love to hear your views, bro! You got yourself quite a mind. :thumbsup:


Junk~

i'm a bit of a church burner and i think y'all deserve a thread to discuss this topic within your own belief system.

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

John 14 1-26

Lets discuss this a bit. Is Christ the only way to God, or did he simply create/show the bridge by which all mankind can travel? Is a literal belief in the person nescessary, or is there another way?

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As a "mere Christian" (though perhaps of a very uncommon sort), I'd say yes, He is the only way to God. But, what that in fact means is much subtler than most people realize, esp. if all of their knowledge of Christianity has come from televangelists and American style "evangelicalism."

As far as the Christian is concerned, "reality" is "Christian". Or put another way, Christianity is accurately descriptive in what it says about life and destiny. We don't (or at least we shouldn't!) live in some "fantasy world" which we call "Christianity" - Christianity rightly understood, is a realist religion. When it emerged, popular religion for most people (save the Jews) was completely divorced from reason. Philosophy was a different animal from such religions, and very often had an unspoken contempt for the "piety of the masses."

Christianity from it's beginnings posited itself as something interested in history (and not mythic cycles like most cultic religion), and ready to take advantage of the "cream" of secular philosophy - and in those days, that meant Hellenic Philosophy - Plato, Aristotle, Zeno, Plotinus, those cats.

As such, it is a very reasonable deduction that "Christ as unique Saviour" must be in accord with our belief in the universality (the literal meaning of "catholicity" or "catholic") of His mission and His work. The Scriptures say that God is not a respecter of men, that He makes light and rain to fall upon the righteous and the wicked alike. They also say that it was God's love for mankind (and for the creation as a whole "the world" - meaning the kosmos and all within it, esp. man) which motivated the coming of Christ. Further the Scriptures state plainly that Christ's "work" was for everyone, and that He "knocks at the door" of all men's hearts.

So what it ultimately means for someone to have an authentic relationship to Christ, is incredibly subjective. It's possible for the most doctrinally correct man to be proud and full of evil and to receive no benefit from that knowledge. On the other hand, someone can be really grasping for the truth, and that reaching may eventually be fulfilled in a way not sensible to anyone else in this life. After all, who knows what those who truly die see or are given - the only Near Death cases we have (if you trust the testimonies) are from people who obviously didn't "follow through." While it's not true that "dead men don't tell tales", in this case it would seem to be.

I guess if anything, the purpose of the "visible church" is to bare witness to the world to come, and which already is (though few can see it.) Unfortunately, human beings are inconsistent at best, so that "witness" historically is all over the place - from really enlightened souls, to some real scoundrels who are ultimately the cause of popular atheism in modern society.

So, it could be said that something like an "implicit faith" may very well exist. Christ is the Logos, the intelligability and rationality of all existence, God - God Who has entered an embrace with the universe by truly becoming a man. That means He is not trapped in minds, words, or even the best of books, but is very much alive, and very much a part of all things and all people. Subjective opinions can get in the way of this dynamic, or they may be neutral - what that means for this or that person is ultimately impossible for any other human being to know.

So, obviously the Christian must "preach Christ." Anything else would not be the whole truth, the most essential truth. It would be like saying "you need good nutrition to live" - but would that necessarily mean someone couldn't scrape by on what nutrition they found in say, junk food? Obviously not... people manage. Grace "manages" too.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

though i do love the philosophical aspects of spiritual discussion, having no faith in your mythology i'm afraid i'll be unable to join you.:sadcrying
have fun.:)

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You're right, it is mythology. Of course, "myth" never meant (in it's classical use) "untrue." The truthfulness of mythic literature varies by degrees and by kind. The Christian simply says his is a "true myth" - it is descriptive of reality and man's destiny.

Nice post and thank you so much for joining. Your views are right inline with my own (For the most part) but I do have to question what it means to you to "preach Christ". This means so many things to so many people, from the fundalmentalist to the liberal. I'm a liberal --> Way left, so my idea of preaching "Christ" is more than likely different from your own.

As far as Christ "the person" being the only way to God, I'd have to disagree. In my mind, Christ the Spirit, or essence is the only way to God. By this I mean that God's essence was/is Christs essence and it is this essence that actually saves and lends one the abilty to know God on a deeper level.

Christ said that there are many mansions in his fathers house, and to me this implies that God is present in many places, people, religions, or even in some who lack religion or belief in the divine at all.

I simply believe that where love is, there God is also, and we can talk about biblical reference to this idea if your not sure where I'm getting it.


Junk~

Nice topic Junk. I thought I would chime in as this is one of my favorite chapters in the book of John. This is where Jesus comforts his disciples and tries to prepare them to be without him. I believe that Christ is the way to God. Would I say that he is the only way to God.....Yes...
Would I limit God and say thats the only possible way he could work? Of course not. But I personally am more concerned with the knowledge that I have as opposed to all the things that I don't know. I know how Christ has affected my own life. I also like how he says " In my Father's house there are many rooms, if it were not so, I would have told you". Peace..:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Nice post and thank you so much for joining. Your views are right inline with my own (For the most part) but I do have to question what it means to you to "preach Christ". This means so many things to so many people, from the fundalmentalist to the liberal. I'm a liberal --> Way left, so my idea of preaching "Christ" is more than likely different from your own.

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One can be what some would call "a fundamentalist" yet still be genuinely a liberal, which in it's original understanding means one who recognizes the value of liberty, and that such liberty should be allowed to flourish wherever and whenever possible.

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As far as Christ "the person" being the only way to God, I'd have to disagree.

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If that's where the Spirit and the human meet, that's where they meet - a man in time. Now, because He's connected by as man and God to all other things, that can realize itself in all sorts of ways, perhaps ways not all of us can see. But that's a very basic part of Christianity - Truth incarnate.

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In my mind, Christ the Spirit, or essence is the only way to God. By this I mean that God's essence was/is Christs essence and it is this essence that actually saves and lends one the abilty to know God on a deeper level.

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Yes, but when He said "follow my way, for I am meak and humble of heart", He was speaking from the lips of a first century Palestinian Jew. Apart from this, "Christ Spirit" is just a bunch of airy fairy ideas...nothing concrete. Indeed, you wouldn't have those ideas without that concrete person and the expectation of that concrete, historical person...the "Saviour" archetype which existed in all cultures, but never as a historical fact.

So what you're describing is ok, but only in so far as it goes - Christianity says something beyond this.

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Christ said that there are many mansions in his fathers house, and to me this implies that God is present in many places, people, religions, or even in some who lack religion or belief in the divine at all.

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It means that He not only (as a man, as a real historical man born of a real historical mother in a real historical place) has been translated into a higher place (the Highest, in fact - "on the right hand of God" is the way the Bible puts it), but that we too can be as well. It's a parallel to what He taught about His being "the Son of God", but that all men are called to be "sons of God". I don't see how that would amount to an endorsement of everything anyone wanted to say about God.

But see, that's precisely the thing - some of the things "those people" say are true. And that truth, is of God...is it enough for them? Can it be? What is the road that a given man will have to take to be reconciled to God in Jesus Christ? Who can say...it can be obvious, or it can be very hidden. I'm not one to judge another's servants.

BUT, wouldn't be a good idea to perhaps share the "good news" (that's what "Gospel" literally means) that there is no enmity between God and man in Jesus Christ? That He is typologically and concretely the basis for not only man's, but the very creation itself's relationship to God? It's very nice to create different metaphorical tales about God from human history and the creation (as did other ancient peoples), but what about what God says and does for us all? Jesus is very much the "Word of God" in the flesh. So we shouldn't be ashamed at all to tell others about our hope. To even say that it's "the truth", or at least the highest articulation of "how it is", free from falsehoods which may put division back between us and our Creator? To an extent we are all deluded...we're all working through various false ways of thinking, abandoning less and less accurate metaphores for reality. Or at least we ought to be. But I'd submit that this is only possible with some kind of recongition (however implicit) of Jesus Christ by the mind, surrender to Him by the will, and longing for Him with the heart. Again, that may occur implicitly, or not be completed/manifested in any way "outsiders" can see in this present life. But that's "how it is." And that's ok, because God is good. He's not "out to get us". He's on our side. He even suffers and dies with us.

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I simply believe that where love is, there God is also, and we can talk about biblical reference to this idea if your not sure where I'm getting it.

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I agree, God is love. The problem is that kind of love (agape in the original Greek New Testament), the type of "love" which is of God, is not the only thing we call "love." There are lesser types of affection and attraction, even to the point of longing, which while not necessarily bad in and of themselves (that's contextual/subjective to human nature and an individual's circumstances and understanding), are not this kind of "love." That is because it is entirely non-self interested. It's "unmercenary" - it doesn't exist seeking something in return. It simply "is." We as human beings rarely have anything like this sort of love on our own, and certainly not to the extent God does, save we should choose this.

So, the lesser forms of love are like "agape", but they're not the same. They may lead toward it, or they may lead away from it...depends. But they're not one and the same.

I point this out, because a lot of people throw the words "Christian love" around or even just "love", way too freely. It's a much harder flower to cultivate in the human heart, and realistically much rarer, than people would like to think.

1st Corinthians 13

for both you and Ritchie

Prophecy will disapear, so will knowledge, but love is eternal, and such was the way of the Christ man.

On the subject of agape, man is perfectly capable of that kind of love, so says Christ. As a matter of fact, it was both of his commandments.

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

John 14 1-26

Lets discuss this a bit. Is Christ the only way to God, or did he simply create/show the bridge by which all mankind can travel? Is a literal belief in the person nescessary, or is there another way?

Please explain why you believe what you do, I'll share my views and we'll have ourselves a nice civilized discussion. (Quoting scripture is expected) I'll do the same. We'll keep it with in the limits of biblical text, and our personal views of it.

p.s. To those who are offended by this stuff: Do the right thing, and just stay away, unless you actually have something to contribute. :thumbsup:


Junk~

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I can not type well enough ar spell well enough, to talk so
deeply,,,.it is the work of the Holy spirt that changes the heart of man.
yes Jesus said i,am the way, the truth, and the life, and even the light
and I can tell you that, but it is God who does the work, jesus said, my
sheep hear my voice, and they follow him, do you hear His voice? you can
if you listen. the cross calls all men to the Christ, its up to you to belive
we could talk for hours, about this or that, but the bottom line is, do you
hear his voice, for God so loved you that he gave his only Son to die for
you, and to give you life everlasting, He calls you today,

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Originally Posted by jdmarcus59

I can not type well enough ar spell well enough, to talk so
deeply,,,.it is the work of the Holy spirt that changes the heart of man.
yes Jesus said i,am the way, the truth, and the life, and even the light
and I can tell you that, but it is God who does the work, jesus said, my
sheep hear my voice, and they follow him, do you hear His voice? you can
if you listen. the cross calls all men to the Christ, its up to you to belive
we could talk for hours, about this or that, but the bottom line is, do you
hear his voice, for God so loved you that he gave his only Son to die for
you, and to give you life everlasting, He calls you today,

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I'd very much like to talk for hours about this JD, are you up to it? You don't have to spell good, nor do you have to type good to let that voice speak through you.


Love,


Junk~

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

I'd very much like to talk for hours about this JD, are you up to it? You don't have to spell good, nor do you have to type good to let that voice speak through you.


Love,


Junk~

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I will try, what do you beleave?

To put it simply, I believe in Love, both as God and as Christ. Christ was the bridge builder..love made manifest in humanlly form. He showed the world the way in truth and light.

Love is more than a mere feeling, or action; it is a divine essence. Love has powers that, when utilized, can heal any spiritual ailment. It leads us towards union with the divine, as the divineâ??s very essence is Love. When we embrace this â??Spiritâ?� we begin to awaken to our inner strength. We become confident, bold, peaceful, and strong. Love is not mushy, or weak, nor is it always gentle, or kind. Love is a lion that can move mountains on a spiritual level. When one embraces love, they are in fact embracing the divine. There is no greater force in this universe than love, Imo.

Jealousy, anger, bitterness, disgust, greed, selfishness, pride, hate, wrath, lust, envy, intolerance and every other spiritual negative can be conquered through love. These are the spirits that hinder oneâ??s inner peace and prevents freedom. The truth is that we are in control every moment of our lives when it comes to our spiritual state of being. We choose to become angry, we choose to become jealous, we choose to envy, we choose hate, we choose to become prideful and if we can choose to embrace these negatives on such a personal level, then we can also choose to embrace love and rid our being from them. This is a simple truth that many refuse to realize. We are in control, and to deny this fact is to deny oneâ??s own responsibility for self.

Far too many want to blame something other than self for their own refusal to embrace the divine. If the divine is in fact love & life, then any man, or woman, or child can come to understand â??Godâ??. When love is fully embraced, no longer can the atheists say, â??I cannot believeâ??, and no longer can the child say, â??I do not understandâ??, and no longer can those slow in wit blame their inability to comprehend. All can know and understand God through love, but it/he must be fully embraced to come to this understanding.

Love is universal in application, it is pure, unconditional, it leads us out of the darkness of heart, and lends to us its comfort, its peace, its power, and its freedom when embraced. To put it simply, love is the divine, and all one must do to find peace in this life, or to find that buried treasure called heaven, is to embrace life with love; such was the way of Christ. â??In him was life; and the life was the light of men.â?� (Love)


Junk~

yes God is love, and when we accempt Gods love and will,for are lives
then we must come to the understanding, that there is no good in man
that all men haved sined, and fallen short the glory of God. and the wages
of sin is death. but be of good chear for christ has paid are wages, by his
blood we have been made whole we stand before God blamless......

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Originally Posted by jdmarcus59

yes God is love, and when we accempt Gods love and will,for are lives
then we must come to the understanding, that there is no good in man
that all men haved sined, and fallen short the glory of God. and the wages
of sin is death. but be of good chear for christ has paid are wages, by his
blood we have been made whole we stand before God blamless......

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CHRIST is are glory

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Originally Posted by jdmarcus59

yes God is love, and when we accempt Gods love and will,for are lives
then we must come to the understanding, that there is no good in man
that all men haved sined, and fallen short the glory of God. and the wages
of sin is death. but be of good chear for christ has paid are wages, by his
blood we have been made whole we stand before God blamless......

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Love is God's will, so says the Christ. He gave but 2 commandments: love God, who is defined as love, and to love one another. That's the bridge. There are many mansions in Gods House, and perhaps you are in one of them? Perhaps the buddhists are, and the hindu's, etc. as well?

Love transcends the intellect, all knowlegde will pass away, but love will remain, as it is the eternal spirit of God. Your biblical knowlwedge is nothing w/o love, JD. Your knowledge of the man Jesus is nothing w/o Love. (According to scripture)

Something to think about.. . ..


Junk~

yes God is love, but if you love God then you will obey His will, and His will
is, Is to love and obey His Son, who is God,, and yes jesus said, In my Father
house are many rooms, and I,am going to prepare a place for you. but He was talking to his disciples. not a buddhist ecs........ jesus is the way, the
truth, and the life, no man comes to the father, buy by me..

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Originally Posted by jdmarcus59

yes God is love, but if you love God then you will obey His will, and His will
is, Is to love and obey His Son, who is God,, and yes jesus said, In my Father
house are many rooms, and I,am going to prepare a place for you. but He was talking to his disciples. not a buddhist ecs........ jesus is the way, the
truth, and the life, no man comes to the father, buy by me..

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No, thats not Gods will. Christ never said obey, he never said love me! He said love the father, love one another and "Follow" me. Those were his only commandments.


Lets break down John 14, cool? I'll give my views, and then you give yours, ok? We'll do it verse by verse.

1. "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

he's speaking to his diciples, he's saying don't worry, you have a belief in God, now believe also in me. What he's telling them is to beleive what he says, and in his ways.

2. "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

He's saying there are many peoples in the father already, if it were not true, he would have told them. Now I go to prepare a place for "You". He's saying that he his preparing them to understand God more intimately, on a personal level. (Relationship)

Do you agree with this assesment thus far, JD?

JD, this is my view, so you get a better picture of where Iâ??m coming from. Iâ??m using scripture, and adding my understanding of them. But, remember what it says in 1 Corinthians. â?�For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfectâ?� The only thing that can be made perfect is the heart, man.

â??The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentanceâ?�

Repentance is knowing your need, and allowing yourself to be changed. We are spiritually dead, and until we allow ourselves to be rid of our spiritual darkness, (The negatives that destroy our inner peace) we will remain in sin, which means we miss the mark that God has set for us to experience in this life. (Love, joy, happiness, contentment, serenity, etc.)


John 14:3-

Christ is going to the father (Heaven) where we cannot go for we are corrupt. â?¦But, he builds the bridge when he submits to Gods will (Love) even unto his death â??For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting lifeâ?�

Jesus was/is the way maker. His words, his life, his spirit, which was/is Godâ??s own (love) and his death built a bridge so all men can know the father. â??And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto meâ?� Jewish, Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, etc.

Romans

â??Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep â??restâ??, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.â?�

Flesh and blood is our body and natural â??inwardâ?� state of being, and it is corrupt, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption, and herein lies the mystery of Christ, and the kingdom of God. We will be changed inwardly, and in a single moment will we understand; in the twinkling of an eye we shall be raised from the dead in Spirit through love. Weâ??re already dead in our bodies and inward reality, but when we embrace Godâ??s spirit (Love) as Christ did, we will be made new and be changed from the inside out; the kingdom of heaven is the result of such a change. â??Behold, the kingdom of heaven is at handâ?� But, this is what Jesus says about being changed in heart. (Important and not always easy)

â??A sower (Christ) went out to sow his seed: (Love) and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it."

(Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil â??doubtâ??, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.)

â??And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture."

(They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation â??Trialâ?� fall away.)

"And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it."

(That which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares â??Worriesâ?� and riches â??Greedâ?� and pleasures of this life â??unchanged heartâ??, and bring no fruit to perfection.) Many revel in the darkness of heart, and this is that false type of pleasure Jesus was speaking of.

"And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.â?�

(That on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, â??sincere and lovingâ?� having heard the word, â?�Loveâ?� keep it, â?? believe in itâ?� and bring forth fruit with patience. â??Allow it to mature withinâ??)

Romans continuedâ?¦

â??For this corruptible must put on incorruption, (Love) and this mortal must put on immortality (Spirit) . So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? (Inner torment) O grave, where is thy victory? (Life everlasting) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.â?� We are not punished for our sins, we are punished by them

(Jesus showed us the way through his life, teachings, and spirit; he was faithful until death, and he defeated that which we are called to conquer in ourselves; we do this by fully embracing his â??undyingâ?� spirit of love)

â??So faith, (in Godâ??s spirit) hope, (That we will change) love (Which is the light and life of Christ) abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.â?�

In conclusion, we are fighting against our inward negatives, i.e. anger, bitterness, self pity, envy, doubt, greed, hate, jealousy, intolorance, pride, fear etc. (sin) Love conquers these things; it is God that conquers these things when we embrace his spirit, and Christ made the way known. (Salvation from inner torment)


My view,



Junk :hippy:

dang it. I hate it when I get so bombed that I can't follow the long threads. :smokin:

All I can do now is post. Ok you guys seem to be saying similiar things. Love = Jesus!!! Peace..:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by RichieRich

dang it. I hate it when I get so bombed that I can't follow the long threads. :smokin:

All I can do now is post. Ok you guys seem to be saying similiar things. Love = Jesus!!! Peace..:jointsmile:

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You lucky bastard!! Count it all good, as I am dry as a bone!!! :p Care to share, tho?


j/k


It won't be long intil I fill my bong, haha


Junk~

hey juck yard,cant talk write now, but to answer abount command
John 14,15 jesus said, if you love me, you will obey what I command.
taik to you latter I,ll talk about who lives in Gods many rooms

Cool Jd, but if I might point out one thing before your return. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. His commandments came from the father, as he did not speak of his own. All Christ did, he did for love of father, and love of man. No worship demanded, no attempt to build himself up; it was all about his "fathers" will, and that's my point.

Btw, sorry for my previous long post; theres a bit much to chew on in there. :p


Junk~

yes you are write. while He was on earth, He was here yo do fathers will.
and his father will eas for him do die for the sins of the whole world.
so worthy is the lamb to be praised....... say more latter and make my self
know, busy day. plus iam very bad tyiper, and speller hang with me

Sure thing, JD. :thumbsup:

I don't want anyone to be confused - I'm a de facto antinomian after all. (look it up on wikipedia if you're interested)

However, Christ is "the truth". How people make their way towards that can often be a very hidden thing. So I'm far from consigning all of those who are not formally "Christian" to hell or what have you. Far from it. So far, that I'm still not totally decided on the issue of "final restoration" (the idea held by some early Christians that eventually all will be reconciled in peace to Christ.)

However, Jesus Christ is the truth, the meeting of Divinity and Creation, and the summation of all things visible and invisible. It would be foolish to encourage people to take "the long road" rather than the shorter one, at the very least.

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"

Something to chew on.. ..

It has been written that none come to the father (The Divine) but by Jesus Christ. â??Christâ?� simply means anointed one. Anointed would translate into blessed, and blessed into holy. Jesus was certainly blessed in that he led those who were spiritually hungry towards inner peace through his teachings and example on earth. He spoke in code, but the code is easily deciphered when one places love, and spirit at its base. Jesus spoke of spiritual freedom, â??The truth shall make you freeâ?� he spoke of heaven on earth, â??Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", and "Behold, the kingdom of heaven is at handâ?�. He embraced the divine as his father, and as Love. He claimed that he and his father were one, and that he did his kathers will. If true, this would mean that love was made fully manifest in Jesusâ?? inner man. The bible states that God is love, and I can believe this about God, as love is what leads mankind into both inner and outer peace; this is what it means worship in the beauty of holiness. (To embrace love) Jesus was truly anointed by this spirit, and that was his message in life, and his true testimony. This is what we are called to serve. Not Christ the "man", not the Christian view of "God", but rather to â??honorâ?� the divine by embracing "love" in "Spirit". (Love is truth)


"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."


The bible teaches that Jesus was punished for our iniquities, but many believe this is true only in the sense that mans sins are what killed him. The people during his time harbored great resentment towards Jesus, along with bitterness, and anger. (According to scripture) His preaching was considered blasphemy among the religious ones of the day, and it was their hardened hearts, and spiritual emptiness that put Jesus to death in the end. He showed the world that even under threat of death how powerful love can be. He submitted fully to it, and he died for it, so we all who would hear his testimony might find truth in his message, in his "spirit.". He showed compassion until the very end, and this is what it means to be free. Jesus is now known as â??God incarnateâ??, the â??messiahâ??, and â??king of kingsâ??. It was Love that made this happen. He found his freedom in love, and within self on a level that very few will ever attain.

Jesus may have died at the hands of the so called â??wickedâ?�, but he lived more passionately, and more free in his 30 + years of life than do most who ever live at all. He may, or may not be that which the fundamentalist Christians make him out to be, but he certainly had divinity in him. He walked like a god in his time, and he is remembered as one as well. This is what love can do, and this is how we come to know and experience the divine. We do it by embracing love just like the Christ man did. We need not worship Jesus, nor do we need believe in him for that matter. All we need do is believe in, and embrace love on a deep, spiritual level. Love is the divine, as well a the Christ manâ??s god. This fulfills the scripture that in order to come to God, we must first go through Christ. Love can make kings, (even gods) out of mere peasants, and we come to embrace the Christ man simply by embracing love as he did.

Think about this, The humble son of a carpenter becomes known as God in the flesh. That is a profound reality, and not something to set aside, or to ignore. Love is the most powerful thing on earth, and this has been proven through the way Jesus is viewed today. He was/is a truly inspiring individual to many of us, and his life can certainly give hope to those downtrodden in heart. He rose after his death in "spirit", and through the religion now called Christianity. Entire books are written in his name, people all over the world worship him as God, and his name will live on. Love was Jesusâ?? way, and love is the way of all things divine.


Love is NOT limited to any one religion, and if God is infact love, then he is everywhere, and in everyone who chooses to embrace him as that "Spirit". Jesus showed us the way, and built the bridge for all men to God. (Love)


"Many mansions"

hey juckyard, I wish I had the ability to type and srell well enough to
map everything out but iam very slow and after awile I seem to just give up
but I guess practice makes perfect. In a nut shell this is what I belive.
man fell at the garden of eden, death and sin entered the world, man became
seperate from God, because of sin. fast forward to the new testment.
God sent His Son the word became flesh=gosple of john, jesus came into
this world to die for the sins of the whole world, only through him can man be
SAVED there is no other name under God witch we can be saved, but through jesus, budda are anyone else can not save you.. Dear friends do
not belive every spirt, but test the spirts to see whether they are from God
I guess to me its very easy jesus are Lord, God and savior is the only way
to heaven.. may God bless you and may His light shine upon you always

Hey, JD.. . ..It's o.k that you don't spell well, man. You're doing just fine, so don't worry. :thumbsup:

God's is ever present, unchanging and available to all. The truth of it is that we experience him in as much as we allow his "Spirit" to manifest within. Some people haven't the heart to hear, or the eyes to see that God's spirit is what saves.

Christs message, his word, which is his "Spirit" does the work when accepted, and embraced, and allowed to mature inside one's self. Christ made the sacrifice, fully embraced God's will, and showed us the truth, the life, and the light of God. "Love" That was/is his commandment.

To me, Jesus was more than a man, he was Love in the flesh. He was the annointed one, the son of God, and our savior. His "spirit" is for all to embrace however, and I'll firmly stand against the idea that mere intellectual knowledge of the man Jesus is what saves; it is his spirit that matters, and that spirit is made available to all peoples.


Love,


Junk~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Cool Jd, but if I might point out one thing before your return. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. His commandments came from the father, as he did not speak of his own. All Christ did, he did for love of father, and love of man. No worship demanded, no attempt to build himself up; it was all about his "fathers" will, and that's my point.

Btw, sorry for my previous long post; theres a bit much to chew on in there. :p


Junk~

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he and the father are one.
this is want I belive, man fell in the garden, man became seperated from
God, sin and death entered the world. fast forward to the new testment
God sent His son into the world[God the son], to die for the sins of the whole
world.the only way to God the father,[heaven] is through the blood of Christ
there is no other name under heaven by which a man can be saved,
budda, or mohommad, nor ant one else can save us from are sins,
Jesus is Lord God and saver, He is the only way, Jesus said my sheep hear
my voice and follow me,[think about that] Dear friends do not belive every spirit, but test the spirit, to see if they are from God 1john,4

hey junkyard may God bless you and may His light shine down upon you