HELP! ROOTBOUND or JUST SLOW GROWING?

So my plants are 40 days into flowering and they look like complete wimps....usually at 40 days they are tons bigger than this. I took one down yesterday since they all seemed so stuck in hibernation and found the bottom 3 inches of the waterfarm solid roots. I drilled some extra holes in the bottom about 2 weeks ago which seemed to help for awhile but they have slowed back down. The yield is about 1/2 of what I normally get from my plants but I really supercropped them too. This morning I have drilled more holes but REALLY need opinions on whether the wiser souls think they have a couple more weeks growing to do or they just rootbound and wimped out. ???

Like....you know....what people need to know.....I am using Botanicare, Cal Mag, hydroplex, pro bloom, Sweet and LK to 1300 ppms....this is the same as I always use. Temps are low 70's, no way to measure humidity. Lighting is 1kw HPS between two and three feet from the plants with a few extra regular 100w bulbs thrown in. I have been 100% religous about the ph....5.6 to 5.9 and checked two to three times a day. I did supercrop them within an inch of their lives but have also noticed the tons of "rootage" they have. Also unfortunately my trusty $5 RadioShack microscope went on the blink. I have ordered a new one but it hasnt arrived yet so I am completely unable to tell trichomes most likely for another several days (snowing here right now). I need to know whether to start flushing these wimps or give them some sort of bud-booster. Thanks for any help or advice!!:(

it was the super cropping that has caused your issue you are describing.

Each time you crop you ad 10-14 days to the veg cycle just to get back to the point in the growth where you started the crop.

In other words if you cropped say at week 2 for example then week 3 is wasted time as the plant need to recover and spend time and energy on recovery rather then new aged growth and moving forward. so you can't really count the recovery time as part if the true veg cycle time.

And super cropping you cropped more then once most time or you cut it way to close. You have an older root system and a younger structure system so yes give it plenty of drainage and room for the roots to grow out even more. That is one of the major setbacks in doing cropping.

Bless you oh knowledgable Zandor. You have described me perfectly.....I do believe I have about loved them practically to death. I am getting my new super duper microscope today so will be able to check the trichomes again and have learned my lesson about "improving" things (well I say that but really .....) I may have to go out and buy some sort of "Owner Off" type spray for them to keep me from picking on them so much. Should I keep them on the flowering nutes? Somebody mentioned using Budswel and ph'd water. What is your knowledgable thought on that? :D

What should you do now? Flower them for longer? Or is the end result going to be that they needed more Veg time, which it's too late for? And at this point if the tric's are ripe, you have to harvest regardless?
They sure look pretty anyway.

"Owner Off" spray, lol. You could rig up some pepper spray to a laser alarm system so that if you break the beam..... well, you wont make that mistake again, hehe.
:yippee:

Hey Mr E.....where you been? Good to see you back. I was actually thinking of something a little stronger...flamethrower etc where all you would see after it's all over is a little pile of dust and some bushy smiling plants. Or perhaps make a carniverous (finger eating) strain. I might be able to get rich! :D Grabbing onto big Z's advice I did drill a bunch more holes in it but also spoke to my hydro guy who suggested putting them on just Pro Bloom at 500ppms--no Cal Mag or anything else and just let them finish. I do seem to see some thickening around the nodes but at this point it could just be wishful thinking on my part. ;)

Hey Weedhound ,
Really sorry your havin probs. sis . When we emptied out all the used hydroton -n- root systems from the last grow here the root systems were giant ass squares regardless of all the crazy roots hangin in the dwc club pics . When mine acted this way grow before last i thought it was from stress -n- being mean to em topping / super cropping , but it was because fool didn't go buy a p/h pen -n- got lazy w/ p/h -n- got nute lok out . lol . stuck in limbo sustaining - but not even trying to finish .
I really hope it was just from stress of super cropping -n- they bounce back for ya . 3gal . root sys. in my new style buckets might not be such a bad thing . Were gonna go back n drill even more holes in bottoms too .
Take care
Peace
The Crispis' :jointsmile:

Hi X-C!

Well this has been my grow from hell and it's all my own fault. I poked and pestered these poor plants no end. Thank god they are weeds or they'd have died off long ago. Everything else I try to grow just does that...croaks....even the ones I try to leave alone: Roses, fruit trees, whatever....just go.... That's why I love my hydro so much! I honestly did mean to drill those holes in the farms and completely forgot but they HAVE SOME HOLES IN THEM NOW BY GOD!! There are some pretty brown looking roots coming out of some of them but others look ok. My hydro guy mentioned some sort of "enzyme" to add to help keep the roots from dying off. We are having "weather issues" at the moment so can't get to buying some for a few days but will grabbing some when I can. My hubby and I both thought that perhaps they were starting to thicken but we could possibly be using our rose-colored glasses :jointsmile:

I did want to ask you about flowering your blueberries....you said nine weeks right and possibly ten? What were you seeing on your plants that made you wait and wait? Trich color? Bud size? About what would you expect to see about week six or so if you had....say.....taken a baseball bat to your plants?
:D

I'm about to give you more ways to mess with your plant, so if you're really trying to leave it alone, don't read. *grin*

1) Although your cropping & roots are the major cause of stalled flowering, here's some food for thought on humidity:

I'm on my first hydro grow, and I, like you, have not invested in any humidity-measuring equipment yet. But early in flower, I noticed that flowering had stalled, and thought my humidity might be too low. I raised it, and the plant exploded with buds overnight. So you might try boosting your humidity.

No need to invest in anything hefty to do it... The first time I just put a layer of hydroton in a shallow Rubbermaid-like lid (about 1' x 2'), put it in the grow closet, and watered this "pebble tray" regularly. Then I hung a damp towel behind my fan & kept that damp, too.

Now I've kicked it up a notch: I've got one of those steam cleaner things that looks like a teakettle with a hose on the spout, and I use that to give the whole grow closet a blast of steam every couple of days. A drug-store vaporizer (like your mom used to put in your room when you were sick as a kid) is another good option, and you can get one for under $10. Just remember to run a fan at night after humidity blasts to help keep your buds from getting moldy in the dark hours.

2) As for your roots, I've not had that problem as I have one plant in a 10 gal tub, but have dealt with it in soil applications. If you can bear adding even more time till harvest, you can correct the rootbound sitch now, which will likely help growth.

Wet your fingers in rez solution, and then tease apart your clump of roots as best you can. Some will break, and that's what will stall your growth again, but once it recovers it will grow much more vigorously. (Besides, after cropping, you really have more roots than your plant needs to support the green growth it has.) Keep the roots under water while you're doing it, else your plant will probably wilt drastically. Then add 3% hydrogen peroxide to your rez, about a tsp per gallon, every 24 hours for a couple of days. This will help the roots that are still stiffled in the tangle to get the oxygen they need, and it will help prevent root rot by killing off any slimy stuff.

And if your rez temp feels vaguely warm, throw a few ice cubes in a few times a day. Roots like it cold, and the stuff that rots them doesn't.

Or just ignore everything I've said. As I mentioned, it's my first hydro grow. *wink*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Hi X-C!

Well this has been my grow from hell and it's all my own fault. I poked and pestered these poor plants no end. Thank god they are weeds or they'd have died off long ago. Everything else I try to grow just does that...croaks....even the ones I try to leave alone: Roses, fruit trees, whatever....just go.... That's why I love my hydro so much! I honestly did mean to drill those holes in the farms and completely forgot but they HAVE SOME HOLES IN THEM NOW BY GOD!! There are some pretty brown looking roots coming out of some of them but others look ok. My hydro guy mentioned some sort of "enzyme" to add to help keep the roots from dying off. We are having "weather issues" at the moment so can't get to buying some for a few days but will grabbing some when I can. My hubby and I both thought that perhaps they were starting to thicken but we could possibly be using our rose-colored glasses .

I did want to ask you about flowering your blueberries....you said nine weeks right and possibly ten? What were you seeing on your plants that made you wait and wait? Trich color? Bud size? About what would you expect to see about week six or so if you had....say.....taken a baseball bat to your plants?
:D

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Hey Weedhound ,
W/ blueberry - trich. color was deciding factor . I look at them now that they're cured and most of trichs. are milky , maybe less than 10% were amber . I think i should of waited even longer . The mongrel plant gets me much higher . I bred a bunch of feminised blueberry beans though so i'd never have to buy the strain again if your interested in doing that strain again ? There's a new thread on here already w/ the offspring seeds up -n- going by Markass . :)
My roots don't stay pretty white either , not brown though . I think it's the G/H 3 pt. staining the roots ? I really dont think more stress is the answer like Mackswell is talking though w/ pissing off the root sys. anymore . I think patience will be your cure , i hope . Keep a close eye on trich. color -n- watch see if they're getting any further along . If not , then i'll loan ya my Louisville slugger . lol . :D
Good luck sis . Keep me posted . Look in my thread on Burns , Amputations -n- Phantom pain -n- snag my contact info -n- holler via. Hotmail . ;)
Take care
G/B to you -n- yours
The Crispis' :S5:

crispy, do you have my email? if so, please drop me a line...

wh

i've had stalls with blueberry. they seem to come out of it in the last two weeks of flower. bud density is so-so, and the yeild is not too impressive (two ounces per plant as opposed to a qp...)

so it could be the strain; your's look exactly like mine (that are in soil) and i have a month to go...

FUCK!! SPILLED THE FUCKING COFFEE AGAIN..... I'M GOING TO GODDAMN KIL.L SOME BODY ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

sorry gotta go...

Hey k/p ,
If I still had you'r ******** addy we'd still be talking .
Cough cough cough , someone just posted in a thread about pwr. consumption and i told them i'm movin in too . lol . There's directions to my contact info in that thread . Please holler by all means , I miss ya!
There's a cpl. ppl. like you I keep touch w/ off the boards that are for Real .
Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Bless you oh knowledgable Zandor. You have described me perfectly.....I do believe I have about loved them practically to death. I am getting my new super duper microscope today so will be able to check the trichomes again and have learned my lesson about "improving" things (well I say that but really .....) I may have to go out and buy some sort of "Owner Off" type spray for them to keep me from picking on them so much. Should I keep them on the flowering nutes? Somebody mentioned using Budswel and ph'd water. What is your knowledgable thought on that? :D

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You can bet some Bushmaster to stop the vertical growth and kick them into fower. While you are at it pick up some Gravity flower hardener and some purple maxx to finish her off.

That will cure your ills and give you some larger harder buds in the end, it will even increas your over all yield by the end.

X-C that is EXACTLY what the one I took down looked like.....big solid squares at least three inches thick of pure root and those that did go through the holes simply grew into them and filled them up.. I drilled some holes in the tops of the farms to use for tying branches down and had been noticing lately that water was starting to leak out from those holes.....the bloody roots are simply pushing the medium up out of the way! I did get my new little scope and checked trichs but there is even discussion about that between hubby and I...so we can't come to a conclusion there either. I really suck at looking at the trichs.....if I turn things a certain way I can make them any color I want, lol. Perhaps I'll borrow that slugger for.....well, never mind.

Mack, some of the stuff you mentioned I already do...the H202 for example I do every other day.....yes I know it's controversial all you naysayers out there but it's worked well for me.....but I asked my hydro guy about continuing it and he said no. I believe his thought was that the older roots (as Zandor said....older root system....brilliant minds.....) were stressed and dying off anyway being the end of their sad poked at little lives he didn't want me to use H202 but rather this enzyme thing because hopefully it would help keep the older roots alive and uptaking nutrients for the few weeks (hopefully) left. Luckily the weather is good this morning so the hubby is off to the hydro shop to get some.

I'm frankly just afraid to try the humidity thing during flowering because of mold issues but do intend to get a humidifer for vegging in my next grow. One of the things that affects my growing room is that it also houses a parrot, cockatoo and a ferret (I mean....a really looong cat since ferrets are illegal in CA and I certainly don't want the cops coming through and finding an illegal animal around my illegal growing operation) so some things I just haven't approached, like high levels of C02 etc. I know the birds do well in humidity but there are days when the, um, cat, really looks like he could use some sunglasses or something so I'd have to check on how humid is too humid for the, um, cat. :D

I am definitely afraid to try and transplant them at all although I did give thought to cutting off the bottom but have vetoed it for now after drilling more holes and I actually do see some new little roots starting to pop through. Now what other plant can you drill a bunch of holes into their rootball and have them be happy about it? That's my kind of plant!! :D

kp I want your addy too.....me me me me! :) X-C I will track yours down without fail.....if you get an e-mail that starts: AGGGGGGGGGG .....it's from me.

Hey Weedhound ,
Mrs. Crispis gonna get the ferret some U/V Lennon glasses .
Last mongrel plant grow that never finished properly was partly to do w/ me being mean to it too , not just lack of a p/h pen -n- laziness w/ manual 2 drip kit .

We topped em / cut their head off and w/in 7 days it'd thrown up 10 new ones outa the undergrowth . I thought sweet !!!! 1 cola -> 10 colas! Then FIM'd the 10 to make 20 -n- started having visions of Krusty buckets n stuff . Mongrel is crazy masochistic resilliant strain but it got to a point where i think the root sys. couldn't keep up w/ uptake -n- needs of all the metamorphsis type growth of the plant . I turned a 4 month deal into a 6 1/2 mo. one . I still have 10 oz. of poo poo mongrel bud AKA - "Limbo Weed" from previous grow that didn't finish . We wanna tryn do the gumby hash thing w/ it .
Peace
Crispi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Hey Mr E.....where you been? Good to see you back.

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I've been around reading in between working etc.:D

One of the reasons I wanted to do hydro was because even when I used to grow in 5 gallon soil buckets, by the end I always felt they were rootbound. They basically were.

But in hydro they'll still pile on and fill up the container if they grow long enough! I swear I see my tub bulging on every side, and several weeks ago when one plant tipped over, I think the roots may have been shoving the netpot up and out, lol. Thats why I screwed them down and now the whole tub is threatening to explode, haha.

I guess just rambling on about roots. Waterfarms sure dont seem "out of the box" ready for this plant. Definitely need medium container modification. Someone could do well to manufacture a waterfarm net pot insert.
:hippy:

In fact, a net pot insert with a square "lid" to hold it in, and pop in a ROUND netpot with a wide rim to address the ability to rotate the plant with no lifting.

Yeah, thats the ticket!

Mrs X-C,

Mr Stretchy wanted me to thank you sincerely for the contribution to his continued well being....he prefers the non-chew type lenses, lol. He also wanted me to pass on the info that he is accepting donations of $100 or more towards his new patio set (WITH umbrella) for any and all wish to give. :D

Mr E I deliberately bought the farms with the idea of growing "large plants or trees" (which something like that was on the add for them) so they are full of it in my book. However I can't crab too much because I have gotten (and will continue to get) some nice plants out of them :D While I would like to accept some responsibility for pestering them practically out of existense I certainly can't do that if I can shove the blame off on someone else. Done!

However, after much discussion and studying the hub and I have decided they have definitely taken a jump....the top two nodes have pretty much grown solid together and they are definitely doing some hefting up. I will post a pic of them in a day or two and get opinions! :)

So here are the same two plants (in the same order) as up above with photos taken 3 days later (as in...today). Anyone besides me see any difference? I tried to get them from the same angle but obviously got closer than the last ones. Thoughts???

The stuff my hubby came home from the hydro store with something called "Cannazym" made by (amazingly) CANNA. It is a "plant extract preparation for breaking down (hemi) cellulose and stimulating microlife" Anyone familiar with it? Zandor.....are you and if so do you know if it is safe to use with Gravity or Purple Maxx? I have Gravity already but have not tried it yet and have only vaguely heard of Purple Maxx.

Thanks for everyones' help and opinions!! :D

I'm not familiar with it specifically, but it sounds like an enzyme, so it's living, so your H2O2 should stop. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

The flowers seem more dense to me in the pics, more of em I mean.

Hey Weedhound ,
My buddy at Texashydroponics.com - Kevin just started carrying
The Bushmaster - Purple Maxx - Gravity Hardener , and if i'm not mistaken only a cpl. of the 3 products are proven to work . They even warm you in plain english on their site . Texas Hydroponics -> and go to new products if i'm not mistaken . I have heard good things about the Bushmaster though from Latewood , Z , and a few others on other sites i surf .
I can honestly say i see a + dif. in plant pics. too . I hope they keep on the upswing for you .
Peace
The Crispis' :jointsmile:

MR E you are absolutely right. In fact my hydro guy said that and it also says it on the bottle. In plainer english he said it would help dissolve the older dead roots and get rid of them which will give the newer roots more room etc...to grow. So theoretically no more drilling necessary which is kind of a bummer because it was starting to get fun.

X-C I have used the bushmaster before but these guys really seem beyond that at this point....they are definitely at the filling in stage rather than upward so I'm not using it this time around. They really do seem back on the upswing which I'm thrilled with. The first plant I took down the other day only coughed up 3/4 oz of bud which AIN'T GOING TO CUT IT FOR ME!

The other interesting thing I notice is that are a WHOLE NEW SET of trichs popping up....clear as glass. I think the ones we have been looking at were the early birds doing their thing and the new ones seems to be just like a COATING....more than I have seen on my plants before and all very clear at this stage. Wierd huh?

Well I'm all decked out with my new avatar and new sig. :D The plants have taken a huge jump....I snipped a bud off today and they are looking good....the weight one of the top buds off my first plant came out to 0.30 gm....Same amount (two nodes worth) weighed in wet off this new plant at 2.5 gms....should end up being about 0.60 gm dry...DOUBLE! And these babies AINT DONE YET.!! :clap: THANKS EVERYONE!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

So here are the same two plants (in the same order) as up above with photos taken 3 days later (as in...today). Anyone besides me see any difference? I tried to get them from the same angle but obviously got closer than the last ones. Thoughts???

The stuff my hubby came home from the hydro store with something called "Cannazym" made by (amazingly) CANNA. It is a "plant extract preparation for breaking down (hemi) cellulose and stimulating microlife" Anyone familiar with it? Zandor.....are you and if so do you know if it is safe to use with Gravity or Purple Maxx? I have Gravity already but have not tried it yet and have only vaguely heard of Purple Maxx.

Thanks for everyones' help and opinions!! :D

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Not really but if it's an enzime then it works in the roots and the lower main stock I bet. I don't know of any reason it would not work with either product.

Are you going to put a screen over the top after about 3 to 4 weeks of flower?

Big Z, that's the thing these guys were turned on Jan 12; they're in the 7th week of flower! That's where all my sobbing was coming from.....because they DO look they just dropped their diapers. They have completely turned around and it started with drilling more holes and giving the roots more room as you said. Thank you so much because I'm not sure I would have had the courage to go ahead and do it without your advice.....I think I would have taken them down and started over. SO THANKS>........XXXXXX

PS About the screen....anyone know of any practical way this could be done with the farms cause I'd love to try it. :jointsmile:

from the last pics it does look to me like the buds are a bit fuller and the hairs coming off have definately extended a tad they look awesome so far I'm curious to see what weight they produce dried cause it looks very crystally from here

Hi ASD, thanks for stopping by!

Ok guys so new photos today. I am seeing a huge difference in them but need other opinions. The first photo is the original, taken on 2/22. I have circled a branch for comparison to the second photo (same branch) taken today and in the second photo I have included a measuring stick to help give people a frame of reference. Differences? Sames?

The last photo is one of top of a branch (2 nodes) that came out of the plant I took down six days ago. Yesterday I cut the top two nodes off another plant....same type....and the size difference so...YEEE-HAW!! I sort of quick dried it so what you see is what is! :D

there getting better hu? Tucking the fan leaves out of the way to imporve light to the lower parts of the plant is fine to do.

The big rat is cute! lol

Heehee! So your branch is one ferret long? Is that a metric or U.S. ferret?

Mrs GJ, you are actually looking at a universally measuring ferret....US measurement in front but if you turn him around you can measure in metric on the back. This is truly an all around ferret! oNLY $1995.00 (plus tax)

Zandor....you devil you....almost had me there didn't you? Sure, sure, I'll start out innocently enough....an accidental brush between the leaf and I, that surge of excitement.....next thing you know out come the clippers! Recognizing that you have a problem is the first step towards recovery you know! :) ;)

those are some nice size buds but the best part is how healthy they look, kudos to the job so far HW it looks like yer lookin at 4 weeks left of flower so you should definately see a lot more size added on I wouldn't be surprised if the average buds are double the bigger clipping by finish gl

Hey Weedhound Sup ?
I caught your comment a lil ways back about w/f scrog .
"Just a seed" had talked about wanting to do a 1000w. cooltube scrog . He could be our guinea pig maybe ? LOL He's way talented . 12-14 oz. w/ only a 400w. -n- 3 plants , and inside a cabinet to boot cause of lil rug rats .
I'm just not phys. able to do it myself . I see 4 waterfarms spaced out in a sq . w/ a 6ft x 6ft piece of chainlink fence on a frame . I also see my self suicidal or the Mrs. kickin my ass if something like this root sys. prob. happened . LOL
Peace Guys
The Crispis' :jointsmile:

Goin' to get me one a them ferrets.

mrs green, i'd realy love to talk to you....

good growing man, looking really good now few more weeks but the payoff looks like it could be incredible off one plant

So I have clipped 1 and 1/2 oz of tops off these plants because it seems where everything slowed before BLAZING into gear again (ha ha) those buds have gone ahead and finished but the rest is still going crazy. Here is todays pic of what is left post-trimming...AND that is 1 and 1/2 oz dried clipped bud....already double what I collected from the first plant that I cut down ONE week ago. Whatever this CANNAZYM thing is it has also helped tremendously I think as the there are new roots growing through the NEW holes and all the brown slimy looking roots appear to be gone. It also seems to help quite a bit in keeping my ph more stable and lower, much more so than the usual quick rising I get at this point in the grow. :D :jointsmile:

i'm glad you got it worked out babe :) and they are looking good now!

heh, an i got me a avatar...:D whacha think?

I think it is lovely and a nice shade of blue but i'll but it doesn't do the REAL you justice! ;) :thumbsup:

so how are the girls doin WH? have you noticed any more swelling? haha have they overtaken the ferret yet? when do you normally decide to harvest? like what % of color change? or do you harvest in stages to let the lower buds finish up?

dude it looks like you have things under control.......right on.

Enjoy your crop they look very good at this point.

How close are you to cutting them and I assume you have your 30x pocket microscope ready so you know just when to harvest at the peak of perfection....right?