Hillary: Authoritarian Socialist

The New York senator told the Democratic National Committee's winter meeting: "The oil companies reported the highest profits in the history of the world. I want to take those profits and I want to put them in an alternative energy fund." Take? Isn't that confiscation of private property? Author P.J. O'Rourke framed it perfectly on a recent CNBC's "Kudlow & Co.": She's "Hugo Chavez in a pants suit."
Taxing profits taxes people - Commentary - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

This isn't even funny! Since when in a free society does the government dictate that a companies profits be put into a fund to research a means to put that company out of buisiness? It's like telling the lumber industy to start investing their profits into plastics research.

It doesn't matter if it's Exxon or Pete's Hardware store, the government has the right to tax profits, not dictate how their spent!

Have a good one!:s4:

oil is the only utility not controlled by any governmental oversight. yes,the oil companies should be considered as dealers in a public utility. their product permeates every facet of our lives and at present we have no choice but to use it. even if we leave out the many petroleum based products on the market, any product that is shipped uses these fuels. almost all personal and public transportation relies on gasoline or diesel fuel and it is used to generate electricity (a controlled utility). though it can't be considered a true monopoly, that sort of power in the hands of a very few is the perfect environment for greed to run wild. take a good look and you'll see that it has.

since its beginning, the petroleum industry has held incredible political power. wielding their massive war chests like clubs they purchase politicians, shield themselves from justice and create political dynasties (look to our good buddy w). they have helped to create a world where they are necessary and they are wringing every last dime out of the situation. we would never allow our other utilities to gouge such massive profits from our pocketbooks, yet somehow these giants have escaped regulation and created an empire.

though i'm loathe to suggest that government stick its greedy paws into our lives any more than it already does, but the matter of public utilities is one of the few areas where they do belong. as usual, they are failing the public to line their own pockets.

I believe in the free market system, but 39 billion a quarter is a little much...

I wish i had money to invest in there stock.....


hillary has no good ideas..... she, like nancy, is a socialist ding bat.....

Found this in the story

"In fact, over the last 25 years, federal and state governments took $397 billion from the largest oil companies and another $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion."

I'm not gonna lose sleep if these companies have to pay a few billion extra a year in tax. Government collects more tax at the pump then they do from these big oil companies. I believe in a free market but when you make that kind of money and theres kids starving and homeless then they too can help out. WTF is someone gonna do with almost 40billion dollar profit anyways?

Sorry, but real socialists want nothing to do with that liberal scumbag. She is a capitalist to the core; maybe one who wants the government to control some parts of the capitalist economy, but she is certainly not a socialist who advocates direct control over the means of production by the proletariat. Republicrats and Democans both have intimate love affairs with the corporate bourgeoisie in this country; it is totally ludicrous to think that anyone in either party would want the proletariat to seize the means of production, overthrow capitalism, and bring about a classless society.

Amen to the massive profits thing, thanks to uncontrolled 3.00+ a gallon gas and the squeezing of the elderly and poor on the heating oil issue the oil companies have been continously been raping us since the mid 70s, When gasoline doubled in '73-74' from 50 cents to a dollar and then hovered between 70 cents to 1.20 for a few years the oil giants found out we'd pay anything to have our cars, and then they proceeded to rape and pillage. It was no longer a market of supply and demand, but one that had a growing Demand and a market controlled by greed. Every "Oil Shortage" was nothing more than a contrivance by the oil companies to raise prices. The Government played along as they were most certainly complicent in sharing the wealth (Re-election campaign money etc.) Regans big push to de-regulate all industry has created a pool of greed by the corporations never seen before. When a comodity is a necessary fact of life (Electric, all utilities, fuel, some food, etc) it needs some regulation.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

.... but she is certainly not a socialist who advocates direct control over the means of production by the proletariat....

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i think you'll find that a socialist society is one where the state controls the means of production. the term you're looking for is communist. there are problems with both of these economic systems.

socialism requires a truly benevolent political system to operate under. with that much power in the hands of the state, the possibilities for abuse are far too great to entrust it to a chosen few. the coupling of a truly representative democracy with socialism should yield the optimal results, but that experiment has never been tried.

the major stumbling block for communism is size. on a small scale it gives everyone a say in how best to use the resources at hand and the equitable division of profit (yes, there is always profit of one sort or another in any system) is easily achieved. on larger scales communism become an unwieldy behemoth where a consensus can never be achieved. once again, this experiment has never been tried so this is merely a semi-educated opinion.

size seems to be the major problem with any system, economic or political. once the population hits a certain number there are just too many variables to oversee and the temptations of corruption become overwhelming.

size seems to be the major problem with any system, economic or political. once the population hits a certain number there are just too many variables to oversee and the temptations of corruption become overwhelming.Is there no alternative to Capitalism besides communism or socialism. Is there not a modified version of capitalism that keeps the money more evenly distributed. The society is now moving at an alarming rate to opposite extremes Poor and Rich. We need to play a little Robin Hood and lean out the rich. I mean, Multi million dollar salaries for bosses, come on now, this is a case of the rich feeding the rich and crapping on the poor. I'm pretty sure we could do better, Example: eliminate the FED. Those rich bankers have been raping us for too long. Isn't a government supposed to be in charge of it's own money supply, Most other countries are. It was a sad day when we turned our monetary system over to a bunch of greedy bankers. Nationalize the national debt. Throw all the foriegners out of the Debt package, China is into us for billions, kick them out before they have sufficient nuclear power to challenge us. Put government on a diet and legalize drugs, all drugs. start comprehensive treatment centers with all the cops and prosecutors that will lose their jobs. I have a hundred Ideas for change. Lets get started. Vote Obama 2008.

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Originally Posted by medicinal

Is there no alternative to Capitalism besides communism or socialism. Is there not a modified version of capitalism that keeps the money more evenly distributed.

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socialism with a dash of capitalism thrown in for incentive? that's the 1984 scenario, masses of complacent workers carrying out their appointed tasks and the few with more entrepreneurial tendencies overseeing the rest. that seems to be our goal at the moment and it's not a pretty picture.

downsized communal states cooperating within a loose capitalistic framework? my personal favorite and a beautiful utopian ideal. until you add in the expansionist ideologies of various political and religious groups. if you then add in the human tendency to turn petty grievances into all out warfare it becomes only a matter of time until these states merge to form nations at war.

capitalism tightly constrained by socialist programs to raise the standard of living among those who, for whatever reasons, cannot thrive in a cutthroat marketplace? this is the present agenda of american liberals and it has a few inherent flaws. deciding who bears the financial burden of those programs and the culture of entitlement which grows among those serviced by them being the most glaring faults.

there, i've given you three hybrid systems - any of which are perfectly workable. with proper political and ethical backing, any of them could lead to the equitable distribution of the society's wealth. any of them could be corrupted and used for the enrichment of the few at the expense of the many. economic ideologies alone cannot solve the sort of problems you wish to address.

there, i've given you three hybrid systems - any of which are perfectly workable. with proper political and ethical backing, any of them could lead to the equitable distribution of the society's wealth. any of them could be corrupted and used for the enrichment of the few at the expense of the many. economic ideologies alone cannot solve the sort of problems you wish to address.
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So, isn't one of them better than what we have now, which is runaway capitalism or more correctly an ogliarchic plutocracy. The gap between the rich and poor is widening at such an alarming rate that a dictatorship is immenently the next progression. As Bush himself said, "it would be much easier if this was a Dictatorship". And if economic systems cant solve the problem, what's left, Divine intervention?

Hillary: Authoritarian Socialist...

just like george w. bush...except neocons and others can tolerate his socialism for some reason...no one else's...

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Originally Posted by medicinal

.... And if economic systems can't solve the problem, what's left, Divine intervention?

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an economic system is nothing more than a tool for shuffling money around. it's the ethics behind the political system in control that holds the solutions and that is far out of our reach. we should feel honored to be here to witness the moral disintegration of one of the greatest civilization known to mankind. our legislative branch is mired in partisan squabbling and its members spend more time glorifying themselves than taking care of the job they are overpaid to do, our judicial branch has sold their objectivity to agenda driven political machines, and our executive branch has delusions of grandeur more intense than even my own. we have filled our government with people who have lost the will to serve.

we have an uneducated population more concerned with who will be america's next top model than raising their own children and those children are learning the lesson of apathy well. it's an apathy born of the fact that while we were concerned with making better things, we neglected to try to make better people. instead of building a strong moral background for ourselves we have hidden behind the enforced morality of various religions, whose leaders are often as corrupt as our political leaders. instead of taking responsibility for our future we search for someone to blame for our own mistakes, that way we don't have feel guilty for failing to repair the damage we do. we have lost the will to serve.

seeing the problems is easy. if you want solutions all you can do is start with yourself. do you have the will to serve? but then, i'm only an aging hippie with delusions on normality, what the hell do i know.:hippy:


somewhere along the line i left the realm of politics and entered the spiritual arena. i don't know why i always seem to end up doing this, but that's what you get when you ask a silly question.

Not to sound like an Eco-Phreak But it seem to me like a lot of people are blaming Big Oil and those assholes in our government for all our enegry problems...Yes their policies are a big part of the problem...But so is the fact that Americans feel this need to drive cars and trucks that are WAY bigger and less fuel efficent than they need (What real use is a 350 Hp Truck or SUV or a 500 Hp car?),live in housing that is WAY Bigger Than nessesary (If you look around,How many folk are living in a four thousand Sq foot house with only TWO occupants?) Have so many Eletrical Vampire Devices (Computers,TV's Applinces) that when you turn them off they arn't really off,that are still drawing power?
No I'm not trying to take Big Oil's or our current Adminastrations side,far from it...But look arond you and see how much enegry YOU use in your everyday life,At home,At work,In your general everyday life??

WE The US have 5-6 percent of the worlds population and yet we use 25 Persent of the worlds energy...This does'nt make any sence!!

If you want Exxon-Mobile or Bush-Cheany Oil Co to pay attention STOP using SO MUCh of their Products!!!

And I'm not Car bashing...There is nothing more satisfing thent he sound of a Big-Block Chevy Chevelle under Wide Open Throttle accerating away first thing in the morning, I'v been a Gear-Head for years and always will be,so please don't think I'm a total tree-hugger! But we as American Consumers are as much to blame as they are!!

Am I missing something, aren't the American Oil Companies the government anyway? How is taking the money and investing it in sustainable resources neccessarilly going to put them out of business, it is their money in the first place, so they will surely reap the economical benefits.

Democrats are just as bad as the republican's in my view. What are the democrat's going to save the planet now? 8 years of fighting the evil terrorists and now a further 4-8 years healing the planet.

I tell you, give her 4-8 years with the trousers on and she'll be filing for a settlement worth half the country.

Oh yeah and did anyone know that Al Gore owns a massive chunk of Occidental? Yeah, that's the company who wanted to destroy the homes of thousands of U'Wa tribal people. Last i heard they were all going to commit mass suicide unless the oil companies fucked off, dunno what happened after that though. All I know is Al Gore now thinks he is some kind of environmental guru.

Apologies if my humour is taken as sexist, but I come from a country that was ruled by the iron lady herself Maggie Thatcher for 13 dark years. I'd like to see a wooman rule the planet though, but her name Gaia and she's always been there for us. Right now though I think she is about to go through the men-o-pause.