The Miracle of Death

How do you feel when you think of death? What does the word, the symbol, mean to you?

For years, when I thought of death, I felt fear. Fear of the unknown, yes, but even more so the fear of not existing. Fear that my reality, my life, my memories, would someday disappear and be forgotten. I was afraid of becoming nothing. Sometimes it was just a feeling of unease lingering in the back of my mind, a queasy feeling in my stomach. At others, it was overwhelming terror. But it was constantly there, a demon haunting me that seemed impossible to escape.

This demon I struggled with. I tried to find solace with god, I prayed that Jesus would save my soul, but faith seemed no match for this perceived abyss. It was always around the corner, waiting like some silent wraith for me to make some fatal mistake. It would steal into my thoughts at night, keeping me awake. I was a slave to this concept of death, to my fear.

Finally, I began to push these thoughts aside. I realized that they were only making me miserable, so even though I had found no real solution to my dilemma, I did my best to ignore them, to drown them with drugs and alcohol, to do whatever I could to suppress them. For a while, it worked.

But my perceptions were changing. The drugs I had once sought as an escape were now helping to alter my view of the things around me. I began to question reality, as most everyone does during adolescence. By the time I hit legal adulthood, I was looking at things very differently. I still feared death, the demon was not quick to relinquish its control. But I had begun to appreciate life in ways that I never had before. I began to see beauty in things I used to think of as unremarkable, to fight against the feelings of despair and apathy that had dominated much of my young life.

Not long ago, I began experimenting with certain psychoactive substances that continued to offer me shifts in perspective. My views changed even more drastically. The process of re-evaluation that I had started in adolescence intensified, and still continues, ever more persistently. Now I find symbols and definitions of the world around me crumbling more and more, giving way to the reality that they were initially meant to represent. I find myself breaking agreements I once made with myself about the nature of the universe. I see dualities coalescing into one -- light and dark. Something and nothing. Life and death.

All at once, I find that I was never fighting a demon at all, but myself. I had looked too long and hard at the symbols and words, until I imagined that they had some deeper significance than they were meant to. I realize that this nothingness that I had feared is no more than one of these symbols, because once I stopped looking at it and looked past it instead, I found that it never existed to begin with except in my mind.

With this change in perspective my feelings regarding death are shifting from fear, to love. My fear of death is not only fading, but being replaced by an incredible sense of reverence and appreciation, one that reflects my growing love and appreciation for life. Death isn't just the price we have to pay for living. It is just as much of a gift as life, because without death there would be no place for change and rebirth.

If life is a miracle, then I think death must be as well, for I feel they are one and the same.

:) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow :) :upsidedow

I think the word death to be pretty powerful. For me in the same light as Life and Love.......These words hold a lot of weight.

there is no death. all which is, is life.


when the body dies, the mind lives on. and the mind is the true self, the energy that is YOU, and energy cannot be destroyed or created, only altered, changed, and molded into different states of being, different parts of LIFE.


death is but an ingenious illusion.

it means nothing to me.

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

there is no death. all which is, is life.


when the body dies, the mind lives on. and the mind is the true self, the energy that is YOU, and energy cannot be destroyed or created, only altered, changed, and molded into different states of being, different parts of LIFE.


death is but an ingenious illusion.

it means nothing to me.

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right on man. i agree completely

LMAO i love your screen name!

Nice outlook, afghooey! Now, if I could only get past my fear of dying, lol. I do agree, tho. If life is a miracle then so must be death. I've always known that it was/is inevitable, but like you said in your opening, I can't bear the thought of nothingness. I haven't a clue as to what comes after, but like shadow suggested, energy doesn't just cease to be, so I'm certain we move onward into something else, if not to be reborn into the same world we leave.

I don't believe in heaven or hell, but reincarnation seems sensible to me for some reason. The thought of nothingness is far too heavy to become a valid view for me, so I'll choose a rebirth instead. I guess I'll find out when the time comes, eh? :thumbsup:


Love & peace!


Junk~

ever seen what dreams may come?


basis. when we die, what we want, or think we deserve, is what we get.

some of it very well may be subconscious, such as the suicidals' sea of faces, as punishment to the self for taking your own life.

if you fear it is the wrong thing to do, you will punish yourself in your afterlife.


we all have personal private afterlives, as well as "open lobbies" for everyone to mingle. the astral plane, ethereal, etc....

reincarnation is the most likely choice. you feel that you failed, and want another chance, or maybe you feel there is just one tiny difference you feel you need to make in the world, or maybe you simply didnt learn all your lessons and your spirit guide(s) suggest/s you go back.

Do you think we "create" our afterlives, then? That would suck! Mine would probably be filled with scary, lol! Even my dreams are tainted sometimes.. ..

How do you clear you mind of the mental webs that hinder the positive, man? Just curious about your thoughts on this. (Shadow) :cool:

Junk~

the mind is in a maelstrom from the time you are born until the day that you die.... i believe it is the whole day, not just the moment thereafter.

but anyways, when you shed your physical body, your mind will be free from all blockades of ignorance and darkness, but only by choice, you can still continue to choose ignorant darkness even in the afterlife, but the option will be presented to you to free your mind from all restraints.


however, this might lead to the conclusion that you have more to do on earth, and reincarnate.


but once born, you become ignorant, trapped once again in darkness. all memories squelched from your mind, you are once again, a brand new soul.



until you die, then you remember everything.

we create our own afterlife, because the afterlife is nothing but our energy. when we die, we get full authority over our energies, and can use them to create a heaven, a hell, or a limbo, or anything else you feel you should create with your energy.



all energy is infinite in a sense. that a tiny amount of energy is all it takes to recreate this universe in your afterlife.

and you dont "spend" energy, you use it, mold it, change it to suit your needs.

Why would anyone create a hell, tho? If we are in control in the after, then why would anyone choose anything but the good stuff? I can see coming back in attempt to make change in the world, but creating hell when we are in control seems umimaginable.

why do people even BELIEVE in a hell? it doesnt really matter, people believe what they will, and fear, more often than not, controls us/them.

the fear of a hell, makes them believe in it, and the fear of a vengeful god is what often makes them create their own hell, because they believe they did wrong in their life. wrong enough to piss their vengeful god off.


the thing is WE are god, fractions thereof. GOD is nothing but everything combined, and you cant piss everything off lol or so i believe anyways.
God, if there is such a thing, is like the Tao. while i do believe in deities of sorts, i do not believe in a BEING with all powerful control over the universe. the universe is god, and all knowing, all powerful, but not in control of itself, rather all the individual parts thereof, the stars, the planets, they are who are in control.

the solar system is the children of the sun, who is a child of the black hole in the center of the galaxy...


all that exists is life, has mind, has body, has soul, and awareness.

the sun is the father of the earth, who is our mother.
the moon, our grandmother, the sky our father.


the connection is complex, yet simple.

comets and meteors fell from the sky, heating the earth, and leaving trace amounts of ice and water, as the impacts subsided, the steam cooled and condensed into the oceans.

the heat permitted the methane and monoxide and other gases to mix together and form new forms of life.



before, the only forms of life were stars.

they gave birth to rocks and gases.

gases cooled and condensed and became vapors and water.


fire, earth and water worked together to combine and create life on earth, leading to plant life, leading to air, oxygen.


and oxygen was the key to the complex life that exists on earth, ranging from insects to mammals.



i still dont know who/what the source of the stars is.


edit: i mucked up, gases existed before stars, they came together to create fire, stars.

lots of gases too, so many that it creates a diverse ecosystem in stars, giving them the ability to renew their flame. at least untill the firey ecosystem becomes unbalanced. then we get imploding and exploding stars.

but not without purpose, the death of a star can mean the renewed life of another star.

why did i say all that? :S lol

lmao! That's great stuff, man! Why? I don't know, but your last post made me laugh, haha

Are you by chance pagan? You mentioned Tao, but I know little about it.. ..

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Why would anyone create a hell, tho? If we are in control in the after, then why would anyone choose anything but the good stuff? I can see coming back in attempt to make change in the world, but creating hell when we are in control seems umimaginable.

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I imagine some people believe they deserve it...

Could be?? I question why anyone would think that way, tho. I think this life afford us enough ill to last many other lifetimes.. ..

Junkyard:

I still do have some fear of dying, I won't deny that. I think a certain amount of such a feeling is instinctual, if we had no fear of death no one would live long enough to reproduce and we wouldn't be here. But I don't let thoughts of death tear me up like they used to.

I think the thought of nothingness is so deeply disturbing and heavy because we are taught to associate concepts of darkness, emptiness and silence to it. But if we break away from these associations and look at nothingness for what it is, there really isn't anything to fear. 'Nothing' is just a symbol that doesn't point to anything in particular. It's not something that we will ever have to endure.

In the words of Shpongle: Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.

Stoner Shadow Wolf:

I've been thinking more and more along the lines of animism, not perhaps in the traditional sense in which each object has a soul, but in which everything is alive. I remember in highschool biology we were shown a video that illustrated the many facets of life on earth, from single-celled microbes to complete ecosystems and biomes. I remember the narrator stating something along the lines of, "Although science has taught us much about life on earth, we have yet to discover the driving force behind life."

That struck me very deeply and I found myself very perplexed. That is a very big piece of the puzzle of existence that they claimed to be missing. But I think that, again, this is semantical confusion, that we've become tangled in our own symbols. LIFE does not have to be bound by its definition, by any prerequisites such as metabolism and growth. Rather than being some unexplained quirk in an otherwise dead, inanimate universe, I think life IS the driving force behind EVERYTHING. The things that we normally percieve as alive merely react to energy in a more complex way than those things that we consider inanimate, but at its most fundemental levels, everything is the same -- energy reacting to energy, reacting to itself.

Death is just a part of life, the fear eventually goes away with more knowledge. We are all part of the huge living organism that is Earth. When your dog dies what happens? You're sad and you say your good byes and recall all of the enjoyment that dog brought you. However, then you obtain a new dog, and that new dog brings you a new kind of happiness you would have never experienced without the death of your prior dog. This new experience is directly related to the death of your previous dog. ....

With the death of your parents, you watch your kids grow up, and then their kids. They just keep sprouting more love and achievements throughout the world. It's beautiful, be proud that you are part of the process! Remember the Buddha tells us life is suffering, once we recognize this suffering we are set free! Focus not on death, but the whole life of someone and what they have done!

im exited to die. not in a suicidal way, but i really want to know if there is anything after this life

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

we create our own afterlife, because the afterlife is nothing but our energy. when we die, we get full authority over our energies, and can use them to create a heaven, a hell, or a limbo, or anything else you feel you should create with your energy.

all energy is infinite in a sense. that a tiny amount of energy is all it takes to recreate this universe in your afterlife.

and you dont "spend" energy, you use it, mold it, change it to suit your needs.

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in this energy case... since energy can be destroyed (though not through natural means)... can a person's energy be destroyed and make them void?

hazetwostep... I like your sig. :)

lmao like a very clever guy once said:

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wait! wait! wait! shuh! shuh! shu-hu!...
...the only reason we die... is because we accept it as an invenatability... AGHHHHHH...

- Stewie Griffin

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enjoy...

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

in this energy case... since energy can be destroyed (though not through natural means)... can a person's energy be destroyed and make them void?

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This comes as news to me... It seems to violate the whole notion of the conservation of energy.

Could you elaborate?

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Originally Posted by Polymirize

This comes as news to me... It seems to violate the whole notion of the conservation of energy.

Could you elaborate?

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i will double check this in my physics class (it starts in a few hours) but i think there is a clause in the conservation of energy that states it is refering to natural means b/c i think energy can be destroyed through certain nuclear means. i will double check and write back...

also, i read a journal and discussed it in a class about some mysterious loss of energy. what they did was create a laser beam with a thickness of only one electron (mad thin obviously). they then shot this laser through a tiny hole (not much bigger than one electron) and measured the energy coming through on the other side and it did not add up to the amount of energy being dispensed from the laser originally. they could not find where the loss of energy was occuring though.

this stemmed into many different theories including energy being lost into alternate universes and what not as they could not just conclude that it disappeared (from the law of conservation of energy) since no unnatural means were being used.

i will write back tonight after class... over a nice HOOT

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Originally Posted by afghooey

hazetwostep... I like your sig. :)

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do you like the flaming lips??? GREAT BAND! i just saw them in concert... one of the most amazing experiences of my life!!!

wayne, the lead singer, touches on morbid and negative topics that people don't like to talk about, but he does it in a redemptive way that brings light to the inevitable darkness of life. it really is beautiful... if you haven't heard it go to:

The Official Flaming Lips Website
- click on the audio tab towards the top-right of the page
- find the song Do You Realize from the album Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots

Haven't heard any of their stuff, but I'm definitely intrigued! I'll have to look into 'em. :)

write back when you do and let me know what you think...

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Originally Posted by afghooey

Junkyard:

I still do have some fear of dying, I won't deny that. I think a certain amount of such a feeling is instinctual, if we had no fear of death no one would live long enough to reproduce and we wouldn't be here. But I don't let thoughts of death tear me up like they used to.

I think the thought of nothingness is so deeply disturbing and heavy because we are taught to associate concepts of darkness, emptiness and silence to it. But if we break away from these associations and look at nothingness for what it is, there really isn't anything to fear. 'Nothing' is just a symbol that doesn't point to anything in particular. It's not something that we will ever have to endure.

In the words of Shpongle: Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.

Stoner Shadow Wolf:

I've been thinking more and more along the lines of animism, not perhaps in the traditional sense in which each object has a soul, but in which everything is alive. I remember in highschool biology we were shown a video that illustrated the many facets of life on earth, from single-celled microbes to complete ecosystems and biomes. I remember the narrator stating something along the lines of, "Although science has taught us much about life on earth, we have yet to discover the driving force behind life."

That struck me very deeply and I found myself very perplexed. That is a very big piece of the puzzle of existence that they claimed to be missing. But I think that, again, this is semantical confusion, that we've become tangled in our own symbols. LIFE does not have to be bound by its definition, by any prerequisites such as metabolism and growth. Rather than being some unexplained quirk in an otherwise dead, inanimate universe, I think life IS the driving force behind EVERYTHING. The things that we normally percieve as alive merely react to energy in a more complex way than those things that we consider inanimate, but at its most fundemental levels, everything is the same -- energy reacting to energy, reacting to itself.

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science cannot study the mind, the missing link to that which drives all of life.


from the immortal stone to the fleeting midge, all that exists has mind, is life, is aware, has consciousness.

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

in this energy case... since energy can be destroyed (though not through natural means)... can a person's energy be destroyed and make them void?

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life, (energy), cannot be destroyed, only change form and manifestation.

To me, I think we have a soul, weather it be pure energy or what ever.
I think death as being like a catapillar going in to its cocoon and going into stasis and emerging as a totally differant creature, a beautiful creature that when ready will fly away and NOT remember its life as a worm like thing that crawled around.
When we die and are placed into our casket i think we are released from our earthly bodies and we exsist on a differant plane of reality, not remembering what it was like to live the life of a meer mortal.
So to me death is a transfiguration.

lol i drug up ancient bones in the forum, but more to the point, i agree that death is an illusion, and only serves to change LIFE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

i will double check this in my physics class (it starts in a few hours) but i think there is a clause in the conservation of energy that states it is refering to natural means b/c i think energy can be destroyed through certain nuclear means. i will double check and write back...

also, i read a journal and discussed it in a class about some mysterious loss of energy. what they did was create a laser beam with a thickness of only one electron (mad thin obviously). they then shot this laser through a tiny hole (not much bigger than one electron) and measured the energy coming through on the other side and it did not add up to the amount of energy being dispensed from the laser originally. they could not find where the loss of energy was occuring though.

this stemmed into many different theories including energy being lost into alternate universes and what not as they could not just conclude that it disappeared (from the law of conservation of energy) since no unnatural means were being used.

i will write back tonight after class... over a nice HOOT

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Even if the energy did go to an alternate universe it would still exist in that universe. If one electron of our universe entered into another universe, than an electron from that universe would enter ours, but where would it enter? It could be quadrillions of light years away for all we know. Maybe if energy is destroyed an equal amount of energy goes into expanding our ever growing universe. I mean if the universe keeps expanding it has to have some form of matter or energy that is created as it expands right?

i figure if energy can be destroyed, it simply gets replaced with mass, and vice versa.

without death there is no birth.

death makes life appreciated.

you appreciate life.
make babies.
raise them right to carry on and live.
you die.
they carry on.
and so on.


you have a much wider effect on people than youd believe. a world where Einstein lived is MUCH MUCH MUCH more different than a world where he didnt live.


same as you.

Death came to man in the garden of Eden. We ate of the tree with the knowledge of good and evil, and now we need to eat of the tree of life. Jesus is the tree of life. The day of disobedience brought mortality unto all men.
The next time we pop up, the tempter will have been removed. Nothing offensive can enter. See you on the other side. :pimp:

RE-INCARNATED, better than before.

"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

Jesus is not the tree of life, white people destroyed the tree of life eons ago.


all that is left is the great lakes, where the roots dug deep.


the tree of life bore every vegetable, fruit, flower, and herb in abundance.


Jesus isnt a tree, but if he were, he would be the tree of faith.

This is for "PassThatShit" It is biblical talk, so if this stuff offends, then don't even bother reading. Please make no accusations PTS, I'm simply giving some food for thought, and a different perspective than what you're accustomed to! :cool:


I think a spiritual death came in the garden of eden and that death is what cast us out. We never left the garden physically, only in spirit...

I believe we can re-enter in this lifetime, on this earth if we can get past that which seperates us from the garden. When we have rid ourselves of our sins on a spiritual level, or once we quit harboring damaging spirits, I believe that passage back is granted. These are spirits of hate, greed, jealousy, anger, bitterness, resentment, envy, selfish pride, etc...

About the tree of knowledge G-d said "Thou shalt surly die" We must die to self to enter into eden again, we must die to our carnal nature, and then we have unfettered access to the tree of life. "Those who will lose thier life for my sake shall find it" To lose your life for Christ's sake simply means to lose that part of you that destroys the inner man, and live in the light of love like Christ did. Christ is not the tree, but rather he made the way to the tree accessible, and known.

Thorns and thistles it is until we die to our old selves, and re-enter the garden on a spiritual level. The tree of life is simply "life" as we know it, or percieve it, or experince it.

According to scripture, Christ paved our way, and payed the price so we might enter the kingdom of heaven on earth."Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is is heaven" "Behold, the kingdom of heaven is at hand"

Eden (heaven on earth) is here now it always has been, but our hearts won't let us see it, or realize it due to our spiritual sins. "The wages of sin are death" (Spiritualy) We are spiritualy dead, and must die again to our anger, bitterness, resentment, jealousy, selfish pride, envy, etc. and be born again into a new understanding, "unless you be born again, you shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven" once you have been born again in spirit, then the veil will be lifted from your eyes and you will see this kingdom (World) for what it is..."paradise"

The proper state of consiousness, or perception, understanding and heart are the elements that will allow us to see its majesty in this lifetime, and the result of such a paradigm shift is peace, comfort, and serenity even during times of great hardship.

A surrender to G-d, or (Love) is our only hope according to scripture, and an understanding that Christ paved the way through his life, teachings, and sacrifice. He is the example, and the light that shines in the darkness. None come to the father but by him, and that simply means that what he did on earth as a human, is what we must do also, which is to surrender to G-d who is love. Embrace him (love) and you shall be set free from the burdens we place on self! Heaven is a state of mind; be it eternal or not.

Sorry for the ramble. I like speaking with PassThatShit about this stuff. There aren't many willing to speak out on Christ's behalf, and I admire PTS for his courage, and boldness among so many non believers.


Junk~


btw, I think we were always mortal beings, (in a physical sense) PTS show me in the Bible where it tells us that we were infact imortal in the beginning.

[quote=JunkYard]
Sorry for the ramble. I like speaking with PassThatShit about this stuff. There aren't many willing to speak out on Christ's behalf, and I admire PTS for his courage, and boldness among so many non believers.
Junk~


Very Well said Junk. I also am encouraged by PTS words of truth.

Yeah, PTS is alright in my book. Besides, the man has one hell of a "Green Thumb", lol! :thumbsup:

We rarely agree on religios issues, but that's part of the fun, isn't it?


Junk~

[quote=RichieRich]

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Originally Posted by JunkYard

Sorry for the ramble. I like speaking with PassThatShit about this stuff. There aren't many willing to speak out on Christ's behalf, and I admire PTS for his courage, and boldness among so many non believers.
Junk~


Very Well said Junk. I also am encouraged by PTS words of truth.

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i think the problem with christianity is that people have been speaking on christ's behalf for far too long. it seems that many christian people have forgot the saying "love your neighbor as you love yourself" in favor of "discriminate against homosexuals and persons who get abortions". let's start listening to jesus christ himself and fuck everybody else. they just try.

All some pretty cool ideas you guys have stated. Unfortunately I really don't think there is anything :( its sad to think about. But nothing adds up. I always think what seperates something from having a form of afterlife and what not. It always seems to be consciousness. But where is the line drawn form ants not having any to possibly a smart dolphin or monkey ( lol i know it sounds stupid). I always find it hard to believe there is a line where it cuts off, which makes i t hard for me to believe in any form of afterlife. but I hope im wrong b/c its depressing to think that there is nothing after this.

edit: Oh yeah i guess kinda like what I think happens, is like what happens before your born, nothing. I figured that would help explain it. Also I thougth i heard somewhere energy can be destroyed, i dont have time to check where i saw that. Maybe later, or someone else can.