is it worth it?

god. religion. is it worth it? all of this death, pain, suffering over something as small as why were here? who gives a fuck? we'll find out when we die so why is it such a big deal while were here? the crusades, the spanish inquistion, the current war with iraq? does it REALLY matter? i used to think that i was an athiest. now i realize, wheater or not there is some big man/force in the sky, has no effect on me here and now. good and bad is only in people. i have no proof that god dosent exist, and followers have no proof that he does. and why should i care? this isnt a religious-bashing thread or a athiest approval thread. i dont need or want religion in my life. im 17. there are kids in my school who will defend their beleifs to no end. theistic or not. why? all of this fighting, for what? so we can prove what we will find out in about 70 years? its like fighting over when a cure for HIV/AIDS will come. it will come, but we have no control over when it will. but we know it will. all one needs is patience. thats it. my :twocents:

Because death is fucking scary. I don't care how tough you think you are, everyone is afraid of death. The concepts of a loving God and life after death are very comforting. This is why religion will always exist, and people with always seek it.

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

Because death is fucking scary. I don't care how tough you think you are, everyone is afraid of death. The concepts of a loving God and life after death are very comforting. This is why religion will always exist, and people with always seek it.

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i can honestly say that im not afraid to die, i have nothing to live for.

sorry to hear that mastachronic... i sincerely hope you find some things in life (spouse, kids, friends, family, helping orphans, painting, smoking weed, whatever) that give you reason to get up in the morning.

hell, that is why some people (not saying it is good or bad) follow god, because it gives them purpose, and something bigger than themselves to live for... a greater cause... fighting to save unborn babies or for the right to choose abortion... whatever side of the track, most people are looking for something bigger than themselves to contribute to... i hope you find something... for your sake... good luck man

I sometimes start to believe in god, but recently I have come up with the philosophy that EVERYTHING is infinite. So when we die and shit we come back to this, for the infinity is a loop, may take a long ass time, but you will live again. Besides all the crazy wars and shit started over religion are for power, not religion.

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Originally Posted by smoke it

god. religion. is it worth it? all of this death, pain, suffering over something as small as why were here? who gives a fuck? we'll find out when we die so why is it such a big deal while were here? the crusades, the spanish inquistion, the current war with iraq? does it REALLY matter?

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Its a good, if in my opinion slightly misguided question. I think it's misguided because you seem to think its about religion. Regardless of belief, death, pain and suffering are part of life, its something that we all face despite our beliefs in what comes after.

Religion is just one of many ways people try to come to an answer. But I think the question itself is more primordial and fundamental. The question isn't about religion, but about humanity and life itself. Is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

sorry to hear that mastachronic... i sincerely hope you find some things in life (spouse, kids, friends, family, helping orphans, painting, smoking weed, whatever) that give you reason to get up in the morning.

hell, that is why some people (not saying it is good or bad) follow god, because it gives them purpose, and something bigger than themselves to live for... a greater cause... fighting to save unborn babies or for the right to choose abortion... whatever side of the track, most people are looking for something bigger than themselves to contribute to... i hope you find something... for your sake... good luck man

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ive got my homies...but...none of us really have anything to lose, so we're not afraid to die.

Have you ever been close enough to death to know what you're talking about?

I've contemplated this question often throughout my life. What I have found that; not only feels right somewhere deep in my soul, but also kinda' makes sense is this: Our souls live on. We are born again (and again) to learn lessons we didn't in previous lives. The goal being to ultimately become "perfect" and move on to whatever comes after that (haven't got that part figured out yet..lol). Heres the deal though....as you progress up the ladder, one of the responsibilities you have to you're fellow souls is to teach and help them understand that resistance is futile. The sooner you "get it" the sooner you can leave behind some of the harder lessons to learn.

Think about it. If you don't work out the conflicts that are troubling you now, you will come back again and again until you do. Might as well start now. You are young and there is SO MUCH joy that you are going to experience.....working through the tough times is just part of getting to the joyful ones.

I suggest "Lifecycles: Reincarnation and The Web of Life". It will help you gain a better understanding of the conflicts you are having with your Dad. And actually anyone else that comes within your "Web" throughout your life.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

Because death is fucking scary. I don't care how tough you think you are, everyone is afraid of death. The concepts of a loving God and life after death are very comforting. This is why religion will always exist, and people with always seek it.

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i'm only afraid of dying a horrible painful death, or a long drawn out death where i just wither away to nothing... i'm not afraid of ceasing to exist tho.

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

Because death is fucking scary. I don't care how tough you think you are, everyone is afraid of death. The concepts of a loving God and life after death are very comforting. This is why religion will always exist, and people with always seek it.

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i cant say that im afraid of death. multiple times i've came close to OD'ing, and have known that if i fell asleep i could die. often i would fall asleep out of pure laziness, knowing it could kill me. i have plenty to live for , but hell when i die, i die.

1.im not afraid of death. even if im burned alive, it will only suck for like what, 5 minutes?

2.why should we care? purpose? life= live----maybe fuck and have kids----then die. if there is a god, i will be more than happy to serve him and do whatever he wants me to do. because he is the creator. but here and now, theres no proof of him, so fuck it.

3.all of those wars were started about religion (or religon was used as a scapegoat) i know that pain and suffering is part of life, but there would be less if religion wasnt part of it.

4.i know that im here to enjoy life and i am enjoying it. i dont get why people need it now. they WILL know soon enough. why do they beleive in all of this when theres no proof. it WILL come in time, just not now

ok just gotta throw this in there cause i think you have the wrong idea about religion in general. all of the suffering was caused by men who used religion as an excuse. if you actually look at the writings of pretty much every religion, at no point does it advocate genocide as a form of serving god. its evil people who use it as a basis for their crimes against humanity to make themselves feel righteous.
as far as why people believe in deities, i think the belief in a higher being is innate in many people. they believe in someone or something more powerful than themselves when they see how infinitely big and intricate the universe is and how infinitely small and insignificant they are.
just my opinion :)

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Originally Posted by smoke it

2.why should we care? purpose? life= live----maybe fuck and have kids----then die. if there is a god, i will be more than happy to serve him and do whatever he wants me to do. because he is the creator. but here and now, theres no proof of him, so fuck it.

Cool. Camus once wrote that the only philosophical problem was suicide. Basically that the most fundamental question is whether life itself is worth living. If you've got an affirmative answer that doesn't involve a deity or god, more power to you. If you've got an affirmative answer that involves a religion, that's plenty cool too. If you don't think life is worthwhile, and have no good answer, then you're just wasting space and too terrified of what comes next.

3.all of those wars were started about religion (or religon was used as a scapegoat) i know that pain and suffering is part of life, but there would be less if religion wasnt part of it.

You hear this a lot and I've never understood it. On a level far more fundamental than religion, human psychology has always organized "in groups" and "out groups". Have's and Havenots. Families and outcasts. Even within the broad umbrella of a religion you'll see inter-tribe or clan warfare. Religion isn't responsible for any wars or killing, its some human potential for hatred of those who are different than us that is at work. And what scares me most about comments like the one above is that in labelling the problem as religious in origin, the fundamentalist atheists and agnostics seem dangerously close to creating a new ingroup for themselves. An enlightened group who can look down on those pathetic individuals who are to weak to stand and therefore cling to the comfort of religious beliefs. How do these two groups interact? How do you think they do?

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All bold my own text. Just some thoughts...

Well what i think is that if their is a god then he would want us to live our lives being happy and helping others. Even if you do not worship him every week. Because i think their are alot of things wrong with churches and that god wouldnt agree with alot of the shit that has gone on. I am in an inbetween area right now. For a while i thought i was an atheist but now im not so sure. But anyways i think that if you live a good life then if their is a heven then you will get in. But honstley its all about what you think.

I'm on the border between athiest and agnostic. The way I've always figured it is like this: If there is a God up there, all he cares about is that you are a good person; you don't steal, you don't hurt others, etc. He really doesn't give a damn if you go to church, are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. All that matters is that you are a good person.

Think about it, all religions, no matter what they are, are just a set of rules that pretty much any "good person" would follow anyway. Some people just need a little more motivation, like the fear of burning in hell, than others to be "good".

So, ultimately, when I die, if I don't simply become worm food as I suspect I will; if I do end up at the pearly gates facing some entity, I'm going to have preference over someone who's highly religious. Why? Simple, I've been a "good person" without religion. I didn't need anyone preaching about fire and brimstone to put me on the right path. That bible thumper though, it's only out of his/her fear that's made them a good person.

And, if it really does come down to the fact that you must be a good Christian, accept Jesus as your savior, etc etc to get into heaven. If nothing else matters. Well...that's not the place I want to be.

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Originally Posted by Matt the Funk

I sometimes start to believe in god, but recently I have come up with the philosophy that EVERYTHING is infinite. So when we die and shit we come back to this, for the infinity is a loop, may take a long ass time, but you will live again. Besides all the crazy wars and shit started over religion are for power, not religion.

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Please don't confuse the God almighty with religion. This is the problem religion has completely corrupted the word and has strayed many potential believers. Ask God into your heart. Love him with all you have and always do his will and your life will change. Religion does not have to be the issue, God even gave Adam and Eve the choice between listening to him or not and if you don't there will be consequences. Listen to your heart, after the holy spirit enters lets the holy spirit be your guide. Do not be deceived by false doctrine and orrupt religion.:rastasmoke: