are there infinite universes?

what is outside of the universe?
the universe is ever expanding, but what is outside of it?
materials are made up of atoms and we all know atoms have empty space between them, and inside the atom there is electrons and protons and nuclei, but there is still empty space.
size is infinite.
is our universe contained within a single atom on a blade of grass in some cosmic vacant lot containing an infinite number of other universes?
but there must be an end to amount of universes?
the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite, it can only think it can.
is there some convergance point where the infinite universes merge?
could this be god?
but if this was god, how could it be watching over humans selectively while there are an infinite amount of other universes?
could it be that this god figure is infinite as well?
but how could a singularity be infinite?
when we burn a log for fire do we destroy countless other universes?
what about this universe?
what happens when the cosmic vacant lot dries up?
does this world dry up and become an arid desert wasteland?

but-

as it was once explained to me, the universe is merely a pimple on god's ass. some day the sucker is gonna sit down a little too hard and

pop goes reality!

It doesn't really even matter.

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Originally Posted by Matt the Funk

It doesn't really even matter.

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to me it matters.
i maintain a philosophy of questioning most everything to gain an understanding of what i can and this is something that piques my interest

i hear you mastachronic... i think you are on to it... thinking of an infinite universe is like thinking about god, simply impossible for a human, finite mind to grasp...

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

what is outside of the universe?
the universe is ever expanding, but what is outside of it?
materials are made up of atoms and we all know atoms have empty space between them, and inside the atom there is electrons and protons and nuclei, but there is still empty space.
size is infinite.
is our universe contained within a single atom on a blade of grass in some cosmic vacant lot containing an infinite number of other universes?
but there must be an end to amount of universes?
the finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite, it can only think it can.
is there some convergance point where the infinite universes merge?
could this be god?
but if this was god, how could it be watching over humans selectively while there are an infinite amount of other universes?
could it be that this god figure is infinite as well?
but how could a singularity be infinite?
when we burn a log for fire do we destroy countless other universes?
what about this universe?
what happens when the cosmic vacant lot dries up?
does this world dry up and become an arid desert wasteland?

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Alot of your questions are just some basic physics. I suggest you go pick up a copy of a "Brief history of time" by Stephan Hawking.
As for some other questions, i will answer some.
How can a singularity be infinite? Think about our universe. Hubble proved back in the 1920's that the universe was expanding apart. If the universe was expanding apart, it must have been closer at some point in the past. This is known as the Big Bang, when all the matter in the universe exploded from one singularity. In the distant future, the universe may collapse into the big crunch when all this matter will come smashing back together.
In black holes, if the singularity with all the mass was finite, meaning it had definition of size, it would not be a singularity. It would be this ball of mass with a radius and measurement. Instead a singularity is without size and is thus its mass must be infinite.
When you burn a log, I highly doubt your destroying some civilization in some random universe. Besides, even if you did, they would have a totally separate definition of time. Your 1 second could be 10 billion years for them if they did exist.
As far as our vacant lot drying up, I highly doubt it will ever happen. Even in the vacuum of space in the middle of nowhere, tiny quarks form making particles and anti-particles in equal ratio from risidual energy. These two particles are then attracted by gravity and annihilate one another in a brilliant display of energy. That energy then reforms as a particle and an anti-particle.
Go read some books and educate your mind.

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Originally Posted by Herbal

Alot of your questions are just some basic physics. I suggest you go pick up a copy of a "Brief history of time" by Stephan Hawking.
As for some other questions, i will answer some.
How can a singularity be infinite? Think about our universe. Hubble proved back in the 1920's that the universe was expanding apart. If the universe was expanding apart, it must have been closer at some point in the past. This is known as the Big Bang, when all the matter in the universe exploded from one singularity. In the distant future, the universe may collapse into the big crunch when all this matter will come smashing back together.
In black holes, if the singularity with all the mass was finite, meaning it had definition of size, it would not be a singularity. It would be this ball of mass with a radius and measurement. Instead a singularity is without size and is thus its mass must be infinite.
When you burn a log, I highly doubt your destroying some civilization in some random universe. Besides, even if you did, they would have a totally separate definition of time. Your 1 second could be 10 billion years for them if they did exist.
As far as our vacant lot drying up, I highly doubt it will ever happen. Even in the vacuum of space in the middle of nowhere, tiny quarks form making particles and anti-particles in equal ratio from risidual energy. These two particles are then attracted by gravity and annihilate one another in a brilliant display of energy. That energy then reforms as a particle and an anti-particle.
Go read some books and educate your mind.

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the fuck makes you think i havent?
this is not meant to be about physics, this is meant to be a philosophical debate. thinking outside of the box. thinking outside of what science has suggested.
what you have described are theoretical physics, that is, they are theories and arent proven. some of the things youve described(anti-matter) have been proven to exist. as for the big bang, theory.
so.....fook ooff

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Originally Posted by hazetwostep

i hear you mastachronic... i think you are on to it... thinking of an infinite universe is like thinking about god, simply impossible for a human, finite mind to grasp...

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People used to say the same thing about a variety of philosophical or scientific conundrums that are now very simple to grasp (for most of us). If we continue to put the word finite mind next to human...we're making ourselves finite. I don't think god/lack of god or the infinite universe are necessarily outside the realm of human comprehension or understanding...forever, anyways.

As for the original question...I too would suggest Hawking...you say "theory" as if it's something that scientists just came up with off the top of their heads after a night of heavy drinking. Substantial evidence is required for any theory. Theories of physics are the best answer humans have at this point in time. Our understanding of how our universe was created expands every day.

And the Big Bang's intention isn't to solve the problem of what happened before the singularity, it's basically just saying that, like most things we perceive, something complex comes from something simple, not the reverse. Not sure how familiar you are with string theory/M theory...but those helped me out a lot.

And yeah, our entire universe could be on the "blade of grass" of some other universe. We have no idea where we fall into the entire cosmic scope because it hasn't been/can't be entirely explored yet...but we already are getting the sense that we're pretty damn small. Then again, big and small is really only in the reference point.

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Originally Posted by peacetrain

People used to say the same thing about a variety of philosophical or scientific conundrums that are now very simple to grasp (for most of us). If we continue to put the word finite mind next to human...we're making ourselves finite. I don't think god/lack of god or the infinite universe are necessarily outside the realm of human comprehension or understanding...forever, anyways.

As for the original question...I too would suggest Hawking...you say "theory" as if it's something that scientists just came up with off the top of their heads after a night of heavy drinking. Substantial evidence is required for any theory. Theories of physics are the best answer humans have at this point in time. Our understanding of how our universe was created expands every day.

And the Big Bang's intention isn't to solve the problem of what happened before the singularity, it's basically just saying that, like most things we perceive, something complex comes from something simple, not the reverse. Not sure how familiar you are with string theory/M theory...but those helped me out a lot.

And yeah, our entire universe could be on the "blade of grass" of some other universe. We have no idea where we fall into the entire cosmic scope because it hasn't been/can't be entirely explored yet...but we already are getting the sense that we're pretty damn small. Then again, big and small is really only in the reference point.

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true, i was angry when i wrote that response to herbal.
i dont like being called a fool which is what i believe he implied.
ive read plenty of physics books, but this is just something that ive toyed around in my mind for a little while.
i know substantial evidence is required for a theory, otherwise its just a hypothesis, but a theory still isnt fact, thats why its theory and can still be toyed with and/orcast aside.

oh absolutely...indeed, theories are MEANT to be toyed with/cast aside. Every theory is constantly attempting to be disproven or changed. :)

It's nice that other stoners think about these things. I haven't met too many on my journey so far. Refreshing!

Well, I believe the concept and measurment of this "infinity' is man made and is therefor limited in it's constructs. Infinity is simply 'the vastness of which cannot be measured, calculated and determined by MAN'. What if there was something or some things significantly more complex than the infinity model and what if THAT something in itself it a 'condition' or several conditions rather than one measurment.

Now my question to you is this; Can this concept of infinity evolve with the advancement of our perception and if it can, would this infinity still be considered valuable givin the new definitions?

Perhaps we can't even begin to comprehend the truth in this matter? What if we are questioning that which cannot be answered? Would that make you stop questioning?

If I were a god, I would be greatly offended if someone were to try to measure me with their primitive perceptions.

So is the universe infinate? My answer is no, the universe is unfathomably more complicated then this concept of infinity. It encompass and harbours an imperceptibly vast amount of alternative calculations and conditions.

i like the holographic universe theory, our reality = projection from higher dimension onto our 3rd physical reality. http://www.crystalinks.com/holouniverse1.html good read~! :rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by Stowned

Can this concept of infinity evolve with the advancement of our perception and if it can, would this infinity still be considered valuable givin the new definitions?

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yes and no, to both
but of course, the main theme behind the infinite universes is that size is infinite, as in never ending.
that may sound like i claim to be able to comprehend the infinite (never ending) and i may understand this part of it, but nobody can truly grasp infinity because our minds are finite and have limits.

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Originally Posted by peacetrain

oh absolutely...indeed, theories are MEANT to be toyed with/cast aside. Every theory is constantly attempting to be disproven or changed. :)

It's nice that other stoners think about these things. I haven't met too many on my journey so far. Refreshing!

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keep searching PT, theyre out there.
ive got a lot of time to think while om on probation and i decided that im going to expand my mind beyond its previous boundaries instead of destroying everything around me, ya dig?

i figure we are the definition of a fractal... you can infinately zoom in, and infinately zoom out. i believe once we comprehend infinite (or find a loophole in pi) we could comprehend the meaning of life. O.o

I wonder, if there were many or infinite universes, if we could clearly define where one ends and the other begins.

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

true, i was angry when i wrote that response to herbal.
i dont like being called a fool which is what i believe he implied.
ive read plenty of physics books, but this is just something that ive toyed around in my mind for a little while.
i know substantial evidence is required for a theory, otherwise its just a hypothesis, but a theory still isnt fact, thats why its theory and can still be toyed with and/orcast aside.

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I never called you a fool nor implied you were a fool. I now call you a fool. Not because you asked questions about philosophy, but because you failed to see that in order to discuss it, you have to discuss everything scientific and religous. You blantenly said that physics and its theories have no place here. I am done with you dude.
Go read a book and educate your mind.

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Originally Posted by Herbal

I never called you a fool nor implied you were a fool. I now call you a fool. Not because you asked questions about philosophy, but because you failed to see that in order to discuss it, you have to discuss everything scientific and religous. You blantenly said that physics and its theories have no place here. I am done with you dude.
Go read a book and educate your mind.

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i was angry when i responded and wasnt thinking, obviously. yes science has its place in philosophy as well as religion. what i do not like is how you seem to think that theories are set in stone and have to be abided by. they dont have to be, thats why theyre theories and not laws. i apologize if i offended you.
your done, good for you.
open your mouth and suck my balls while i read a book and educate my mind.

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

to me it matters.
i maintain a philosophy of questioning most everything to gain an understanding of what i can and this is something that piques my interest

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I hear you, but you can drive yourself crazy thinking about shit like that, it is also pretty unproveable. It's something people shouldn't waste their time trying to understand because it is incomprehensable by our minds.

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Originally Posted by Matt the Funk

I hear you, but you can drive yourself crazy thinking about shit like that.

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well then, its probably a good thing im already insane...

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

well then, its probably a good thing im already insane...

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So I see we have atleast one thing in common......

eh herbal,
the point of the forum isn't to go out and read books, but to DISCUSS issues with others.
i was wondering if you all ever wonder about your perception of things. like if its different than you see it. i dunno how to put it other than i feel really philosophical when im stoned.
regarding infinity, i agree w/ what you guys said about finite minds not being able to comprehend eternity. it is a crazy mindfuck just trying to think about the concept of something never-ending, cause everything physical we see has a lifespan.

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Originally Posted by wrasler

eh herbal,
the point of the forum isn't to go out and read books, but to DISCUSS issues with others.
i was wondering if you all ever wonder about your perception of things. like if its different than you see it. i dunno how to put it other than i feel really philosophical when im stoned.
regarding infinity, i agree w/ what you guys said about finite minds not being able to comprehend eternity. it is a crazy mindfuck just trying to think about the concept of something never-ending, cause everything physical we see has a lifespan.

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But really man. NO one knows ANYTHING. At all. You know shit. You have no idea how other people percieve shit. You have no idea what is real. I only have an idea of what is real, which is what I perceive, but as long as anyone including myself should be concerned, only be concerned with your own reality.

well, your right about most things wrasler.
the only thing that (im not disagreeing) i could see that was fallible was your idea of infinite. your half right, infinity is never ending, but it is also never beginning, it is like the symbol for it, the figure eight.
mr.devious' thread helped remind me of this.

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Originally Posted by Matt the Funk

But really man. NO one knows ANYTHING. At all. You know shit. You have no idea how other people percieve shit. You have no idea what is real. I only have an idea of what is real, which is what I perceive, but as long as anyone including myself should be concerned, only be concerned with your own reality.

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i agree with you on that. i find that its easier to simplify life and keep it into the "what i perceive". but its still makes you crazy to try to comprehend...well, existence, yet its fun to do that occasionally.

my bad about not mentioning that mastachron. b/c that is a huge part of the concept of eternity. its way to nuts to try to trace back time and it makes me wonder when the beginning was, if there was a beginning. ahhhhhh this is too fuckin crazy to think about whne im blazed.

this may be a littlehard to comprehend, but.....maybe the infinite is really nothing and everything at the same time...

Ah the cocept of the multiverse infinity is a circle in time with no beginnig and no end . And the hidden truth of the yin yang with it duality good can not exsit with out evil but the two make one. there is an old zen poem i like

From nothingness we come
To nothingness we go
forever in a circle over and over

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

this may be a littlehard to comprehend, but.....maybe the infinite is really nothing and everything at the same time...

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its hard to comprehend cause it has no though behind it and makes no sense.

1 thing though... Who says the mind is finite. I see nothing as finite, the perimeter of any object for example is infinite. we use these measurements of meters and feet as generalizations but as you refine the exactness of the image you are measuring you see that it is never perfectly straight or curved. You can break the object down to smaller and smaller parts and the perimeter will continue to increase infinitely. So why is our mind then "finite" I feel like we are caught up in this image of the infinite as some massive grand collection but it exists in the smallest atom as well.

I do not believe in your log burning example you would destroy other universes. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, therefore burning does not destroy the object it merely creates a chemical reaction which would change the physical or chemical make-up of an object.

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Originally Posted by Thepossumdance

its hard to comprehend cause it has no though behind it and makes no sense.

1 thing though... Who says the mind is finite. I see nothing as finite, the perimeter of any object for example is infinite. we use these measurements of meters and feet as generalizations but as you refine the exactness of the image you are measuring you see that it is never perfectly straight or curved. You can break the object down to smaller and smaller parts and the perimeter will continue to increase infinitely. So why is our mind then "finite" I feel like we are caught up in this image of the infinite as some massive grand collection but it exists in the smallest atom as well.

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no shit, didnt you read my first post?
oh, and btw, fuck you. it has plenty of thought it it makes sense, its you who has no thought.
the infinite has no end, but it also has no beginning. what has no beggining and no end could be classified as nothing.

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Originally Posted by Cautios

I do not believe in your log burning example you would destroy other universes. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed, therefore burning does not destroy the object it merely creates a chemical reaction which would change the physical or chemical make-up of an object.

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true, what i meant by destroying is changing, shifting the climate of the worlds contained in the atoms of the logs, maybe if this were true then the worlds would simply dry up, turn into deserts or something.

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Originally Posted by MastaChronic

true, what i meant by destroying is changing, shifting the climate of the worlds contained in the atoms of the logs, maybe if this were true then the worlds would simply dry up, turn into deserts or something.

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I think that just because the chemical reaction involved heat it would not necissarily have a heat correlated response. If you were to change the whole chemical or cosmetic makeup of the habitat in which you reside ( let's say your habitat is your universe, and each universe is an atom ) perhaps it would have a different effect such as changing gravitational pull for all things within the habitat. Or even still, what if the universe were the actual object -- like a log, and when you burn it, the reaction that occurs happens to be similar to that of the big bang ( a small dense piece of matter splintering out into what now exists. ) We're still talking philisophically, correct?

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Originally Posted by Cautios

I think that just because the chemical reaction involved heat it would not necissarily have a heat correlated response. If you were to change the whole chemical or cosmetic makeup of the habitat in which you reside ( let's say your habitat is your universe, and each universe is an atom ) perhaps it would have a different effect such as changing gravitational pull for all things within the habitat. Or even still, what if the universe were the actual object -- like a log, and when you burn it, the reaction that occurs happens to be similar to that of the big bang ( a small dense piece of matter splintering out into what now exists. ) We're still talking philisophically, correct?

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yeah dude, this is stil philosophical.
that would be crazy, i sure hope some pyro doesnt set the cosmic vacant lot on fire...

Maybe the chemical changes that we inflict upon other universes ( still making reference to the earlier hypothetical situation ) are just the natural order, and are bound to come to pass. Like an evolution of sorts, or a cycle of life even. It's like in the revenge of the nerds -- perpetual largeness is coincidal ( grammar? ) with perpetual smallness.

there are many philisophical proofs which end at nothing is the same thing as something so maybe we live in a static universe in which motion is an illusion or not lol im having trouble figuring it out this late oh well ill figure out the meaning of life 2morrow

sry i was in a pissy mood didnt mean to snap on you

There are 11 dimentions found so far. most are microscopic in size. There are a googleplex amount of universes.