Fox hunting and smoking in public

Over the last few days, the government have decided to ban smoking in ublic places, and fox hunting. The bans will come into place over the next few years.

Now, i'm in another dilemma (dialemma, dillema, lol).. I mean, I hate fox hunting.. in fact, I hate hunting altogether. But, it's my opinion that man - and society as a whole - won't get anywhere whilste more and more things are being banned. The more things that get banned, the more it shows that the state doesnt trust us, and is in fact controlling us rather than serving us.. after all, the state is made for man, not man for the state. So, I disagree with fox hunting as I disagree with any kind of murder.. I disagree with people smoking in public if in a group of non-smokers.. I mean, I also disagree with abortion and herion, but i dont think they should be banned.. i was wondering what you guys think?

haha, GHoST...

I was gonna write a whole shit-load of stuff about this very subject, but unfortunately (or, fortunately, depending on my viewpoint ;) ) time has eluded me.

I will reply later (ie, when I return from work), but for now I will say this.

Fox Hunting is a barbaric as it was tossing Christians to the lion in Roman times.
It should be banned - wholly, and without reservation.

Smoking in public - is it not about consideration towards your fellow man?
For instance, I smoke in my car, but if I had just one non-smoker (unless they consented to such) I would not smoke. I would consider their feelings, and would have no problem at all about refraining. Similarly, in my own home, I would do the same - or go outside. It's no problem.
However - there are certain places where smoking is part of that particular social ethos (pubs, clubs, etc), therefore, surely the minority should respect the majority. No one forces anyone to go into a smoky pub or club, and it really pisses me off that some one person can dictate the actions of the whole.

This government is a fucking pathetic excuse of an organisation.
I will also be destroying my TESCO Clubcard, and all other such 'loyalty' crap - because, in light of what that jumped-up prick of a home secretary David Blunkett said, I can no longer trust that my information and goings on are confidential - surely a breach of the terms and conditions, of which I will be studying later.

I am as law-abiding a citizen as I can be, but I strongly object to the increase in 'Big Brother' tactics that this government (and in the US) are adopting.

Anyway, time has gone...laters everyone....lol
(expect a vehement rant on this and other relative subjects...FFS!!!)

Nanny-state, or what!!!

im with you on that ghost

peace man

I just got back from a stimulating psychology class about how people form their morals and the abortion part got me thinking.
If any of you are know about Lawrence Kohlbergs Theory about peoples moral steps of development. Well he thingks that we go in stages and progress as we get older.

Lots of people speed and wouldn't speed if the cop was riding right infront of you. So they would be considered in stage 2 which is a stage like 10 yr olds are considered in I thought that that was funny. But I also think there is nothing wrong with speeding hence becasue I do it so I find myself in that stage sometimes.
Anyways
what I am getting at was to bring up a subject that has been looming in our society for awhile and annalyze your guys moral stages....lol okay maybe not the annalyze part.
What do you think about capitol punishment.
stage 6 people are suppose to realize the rights of others hence thinking that if we kill them then we are just bowing to their level and thus no better then the killer. BUT then the other side of the coin is getting rid of the killer preserves the rights of the greates number and stops someone who is killing others.

As for abortion Ghost I will have to admitt that I am pro-choice I think that a women should have complete reproductive control. When she wants to have sex, the chance for safe use of contraceptives and knowledge about them. She should also have the choice to abort her unborn fetus.
I know you said you don't think it should be banned you just don't agree. I'm just stating what I think.
As for government and abortion I think its sick. It has happend that certain countries will not allow abortions becasue they are in a time of war and they want replacements. THAT IS HORRIBLE!! What about the women who could die if they had a baby or from a rapist and they don't want the child.
Oh jeez
I could go on but I think I better just shut my mouth lol

okay I'm done!

Peace

Dont get me started on the Smoking ban!!!

i think its wierd how Governments are always itching to ban something, BAN IT, BAN IT, BAN IT!! but never willing to go in the other direction and give people their own choice.. sigh

agreed ghost
*sighs with ghost*

Ok *does that thing where you lock yer fingers together and make yer knuckles crack*
:D

*does that thing where you regret cracking yer knuckles..ouch :( *

FOX HUNTING
Whom-so-ever thinks that chasing a creature (in this case, a fox) to the point of terrified exhaustion, before taking pleasure in watching said creature get torn to pieces by a pack of frenzied hounds, is quite seriously of questionable moral standing.
Those people will cry out at their percieved 'injustice' of interfering with a 'traditional sport'.
The same people would argue that they are ridding the countryside of 'vermin' - even though most of the foxes used are either bred specifically for the 'sport', or are drafted in from towns and cities.
These people (imo) should be viewed with the same contempt afforded to murderers and terrorists.

It is banned, and jolly good job too!

SMOKING IN PUBLIC PLACES - BANNED!!!
I whole-heartedly agree with a total ban on smoking in such places as restaurants, etc (see previous post also).
However, as GHoST said earlier, this goverment seems hell-bent upon telling us what we can and cannot do. We're not allowed to smoke weed, because we might harm ourselves. We're not allowed to use such words as 'Christmas', because we might offend ethnic minorities. We're not allowed to put up our national flag, because we might appear to be racist.

I'm sorry, but my grandad and grandmother, were just two of the millions of people who fought a war against someone who thought to control the world by dictatorship. Many others paid the price of fighting for the 'freedom' that we enjoy today, with their lives. The ultimate price, for the good of the world and it's people.

dictatorship

n : a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)

Ok, it's not quite there yet...but how much longer will it be, before we are in a state controlled environment, the likes of which those people of WW2 fought so hard to prevent?

I am quickly losing faith in the way this country is being run, and how my life is fast becoming one of less freedom. This government (to which there seems to be no viable alternative) is rapidly becoming a controlling entity, that seeks to be our 'Nanny'.

What happened to choice?
What happened to democracy?

Rant over :)

Goosebear:
I had a debate once before about capital punishment (not on this forum btw, so don't think you're making me go over old ground ;) ).
You must consider the psyche of one who would kill. To arrive at a point that makes that person decide to kill another person (except in self-defence), is to arrive at a point where consequence is no longer an issue for consideration. Therefore, the threat of capital punishment is no longer a deterrent to that person, rendering it null and void. I do agree, however, that that perpetrator should be cast from society - and hanging would be too good for them.
In summary, then - capital punishment will never be a deterrent, as most people would like to think, rather it should just be a punishment - or consequence. In other words (sorry, starting to ramble lol), bringing back capital punishment will NEVER stop the rate of murders (or associated crimes).

I do agree with your views on abortion.
Surely the right of choice should lie with those that such a thing affects.
I would question whether it should be solely the woman's choice (although the final say has to be with her, obviously), but all too often, the man has NO choice - and surely that is an infringment upon the man's right of choice.
That said, contraception should always be the proper approach, and if the man don't want a baby, then he should wrap up Mr Tiddler - same goes for the woman.
All too often, a bloke will say summat like "but she said she was on the pill!!!"...tough shit, dude, YOU didn't want it, so YOU should take the responsibility, regardless of what the girl says.

Ok, I'm done now :)
Hope I didn't bore anyone to sleep....SHIT!! It's Friday, already :eek:
lmaooo

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Originally Posted by RESiNATE

You must consider the psyche of one who would kill. To arrive at a point that makes that person decide to kill another person (except in self-defence), is to arrive at a point where consequence is no longer an issue for consideration. Therefore, the threat of capital punishment is no longer a deterrent to that person, rendering it null and void. I do agree, however, that that perpetrator should be cast from society - and hanging would be too good for them.
In summary, then - capital punishment will never be a deterrent, as most people would like to think, rather it should just be a punishment - or consequence. In other words (sorry, starting to ramble lol), bringing back capital punishment will NEVER stop the rate of murders (or associated crimes).

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now that's logic!

damn lol

It is banned, and jolly good job too!

No kidding i was a veggie for awhile, yeah what a terrible sport.

Fox huntin shouldnt be banned u lot live in townes and have not bein grown up around fox hunting, as for me i have grown up around it and i go shootin, i enjoy the sport its good fun, people like u make me frustrated because u have no idea how many dogs and horses they are goin to have to kill when this ban is placed!!!!

Fox huntin shouldnt be banned u lot live in townes and have not bein grown up around fox hunting, as for me i have grown up around it and i go shootin, i enjoy the sport its good fun, people like u make me frustrated because u have no idea how many dogs and horses they are goin to have to kill when this ban is placed!!!! I could say more but dont wanna get on the wrong side of u guys and we all have our own opinion :)

With all due respect, Proof, you are talking out of your ass.
No dogs or horses will be killed, the RSPCA has already said that they will take care of any unwanted animals.

If people like yourself are even considering killing your animals, just because you cannot continue in your murderous past-time, then it only fortifies the genreal opinion of the public, that you are blood thirsty and have no regard for life.

I DO live in the countryside, and in an area where this barbaric hobby is followed.
The towns and cities have a greater population of foxes..FACT.

What's wrong with drag hunting?...ah, maybe because there is no sensless killing attached to that, so you can't get your fix of wanton destruction.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but your arguement does not hold water.
CUH! Kill all the horses and dogs, indeed...waul?

Listen to u, ur talkin out ur ass u aint bein grown up with shootin and fox huntin, so to me ur talkin out ur ass, of course the foxes will be shot still even if the dogs dont get them people will do it ileagly. as for me i will still shoot them all :)

I have no problem with humane shooting of foxes, but to suggest that the dogs and horses MUST be culled, is quite, frankly, an absurd notion, man.

I have grown up with this 'sport' for many years, dude...

I know that the dogs are not USUALLY suitable for rehoming as a family pet, but I repeat my earlier question, what's wrong with drag-hunting?

Goddam.. Proof, you must be forgetting where I live! I'm surrounded by country side!! I liveo n an island that is about %95 country and %5 town! lol

the fact of the matter is this; You want to be able to kill animals for fun. Thats wrong. Theres no two ways about it

Proof I absolutely HATE it when people talk like that. We grew up in towns so we are ignorant of the country. What a load of CRAP. Do you country folk grow all your own food. And live in straw houses. And weave your own clothes? Or do you go into your local town on Saturdays, eat in McDonalds and buy nike trainers? You just live in an area with less houses, thats all. If you respected the countryside you wouldn't run all over it with dogs and horses killing animals which are part of the countryside and have a right to live. Even shooting should not happen especially if for sport. Clay shooting is much better in everyway, if you get pleasure out of killing you have serious problems.

About killing the dogs and horses, you have no choice? If you can't hunt you will have to kill the dogs, for the good of the world? Right.
They get killed when they can't hunt anyway so even if they are killed, at least they wont keep continuing to be killed over time.

And why do you want to shoot foxes (or anything else?) What is the point? People are a part of nature, they have no right to go round killing things for fun or profit. Just because farmers are too cheap to protect their chickens properly. How would you feel if you were hunted for fun, or because you ate some food that someone else wanted so you could survive?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RESiNATE

However - there are certain places where smoking is part of that particular social ethos (pubs, clubs, etc), therefore, surely the minority should respect the majority. No one forces anyone to go into a smoky pub or club, and it really pisses me off that some one person can dictate the actions of the whole.

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See i go to pubs and clubs to drink. I dont go there to get lung cancer. When you open the door to a smoky club, isnt that almost like saying people with ashma (sp) are not allowed? So if every club is smoke filled, isnt that like saying ashmatics are not welcome at any bar? I could see allowing smoking in cigar lounges, because thats what they are there for, same as a dutch coffee shop, people go to smoke weed there. Bars though i go to drink. No one forces me to go into a smoky club, but i have been effictivly told i am not welcome because i cant breathe.
Even having some non smoking bars is still BS, because i want to go to the most rocking places. Like it or not, banning smoking in bars is coming to a town near you.
Look at the bright side you can step out and smoke a joint in front of the bar and no one will notice your little cloud.Anyway i live in a way colder country than england, i think you can survive. I would be more mad about a 11 oclock closing time, wtf is that??

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Originally Posted by thecrackbaby

I would be more mad about a 11 oclock closing time, wtf is that??

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It's a law that is put in place so that drunk twats can all come out of the pubs at the same time and take over high streets and vandalise people's cars.

You make a very good point, crack, and upon further thought, I agree.
As long as there's a place (preferably within the club/pub) to facilitate smokers.
I mean, it wouldn't be so much hassle to construct an area that sucks the smoke out - kinda like an alcove, with a vacuum strapped to the ceiling?

Things is, I don't go to pubs and clubs anyway lol, so it don't really bother me inm that respect - I just worry about the increasing number of things that I'm told I can't do.
Especially when most of these 'banned' activites are contradictable.

Smoking, for instance. The government say that this ban is in the interest of the public's health - well, then why not ban tobacco outright?

Because, as we all know, the UK government rake in over £8illion a year in taxes!!

Hypocrits :mad:

£8billion...not 'illion' lmaoo

There is fuck all wrong with fox hunting as far as i no sorri slightly pissed 2nite good nite out :D!!but i love fox huntin n shootin rabbits its all fun

Why do you like hunting, proof?

whatever animal you kill, you should have to eat it. I say.

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Originally Posted by juanskee

whatever animal you kill, you should have to eat it. I say.

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Agreed. There's no other way I can accept hunting...

What I don't see is the Sport in the """DOGS PULLS""" up north to me if the dog is good why have it kill it's self to porve it LOVES YOU this is just stupid,, sorry this should BE bandit,,this type of thing is just as sick as the FOX hunt so send me all the hate mail ..

What i call sick is badger baiting, get one badger 2 jak russeltes (bad spellin) they get a spade brake the back legs of the badger so it only has 2 legs to walk on and then people bet to see who wins, sure the badger would kick the dogs asses if it didnt have broken legs but its jus sick! and when i shoot rabbits i eat the odd one nice tender meat:)!!

rascially rabbit

So badger baiting is sick but chasing foxes round for hours until they get so tired they are caught by dogs and then pulled apart all in the name of a good days fun isn't?

afraid so in my books :)

So how do you see animals? Is it not a problem to kill them for you at all?

I didn't grow up in England or around fox hunting but hunting in general is a familiar activity for our area and I STRONGLY believe that is you KILL it you EAT it. Maybe catch and release fishing and crow shooting could be exceptions but seriously if you won't eat it then why in god's name must you buy special passes, equipment, and arms to track around in the wilderness for hours just to find these animals who are minding their own business??? Elk, Deer, Bear, Moose, hell even antelope make sense but foxes? are they tasty? ducks, pheasent, quail all make sense to hunt with dogs.... that bring the pretty birdies back nice and neat but shredded? that is just messy


Can you retrain the dogs to hunt other animals (birds listed above) or is ALL hunting in England banned now? Why would you have to cull the horses?? I mean they are rabid wild viscious fox destroying horses right? they are just normal hunting horses that would do chasing any animal... right? just trying to understand, If I am being ignorant please explain to me! :D

Ok, horses are just used for hunting, so these lovely hunters can't be bothered to look after them if they can't use them for hunting so they "have" to kill them.

I do not think any form of hunting is acceptable unless you eat it, and, let's face it, what's the point, when anything worth eating can be bought if you look hard enough anyway. Fox hunting is just pointless, just an excuse to kill something.

All hunting with hounds in now banned in England and Wales. I assume that means hunting where the dogs do the killing, not retrieving. Deer and foxes are the only animals really hunted with hounds here, otters used to be until they nearly became extinct through people's stupidity.

Hooray for the hunting ban on ~Foxes~ that is no sport chasing them down w/ packs of dogs just waiting to rip them to shreds,,,,Far as Smoking in Public places,,,, to each his own,,,,but in eating places w/ ur children Please I like to breath air not second hand smoke. I only partake in ~Sweet Green Smoking~ anywhere I want in my home just Luv sparking a good old ~J~ for what ails me :cool: