As a Bible believing Christian, what is the reasoning you follow to justify smoking marijuana in a country that it is illegal to do so? This is in light of the Bible clearly stating that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey him.
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As a Bible believing Christian, what is the reasoning you follow to justify smoking marijuana in a country that it is illegal to do so? This is in light of the Bible clearly stating that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey him.
im not a bible thumping christian, buuuuuuuuuut, jesus said "it is not what goes into the mouth of the man that defileth the man, but what comes out of the mouth of the man that defileth him.".......or something like that, and he was refering to cannabis eaters
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. And friend.... Pot is not Caesars
What kind of god would make pot and then tell you not to smoke it?
None that I know of. I never read "Though shall burnith in hell for puffing thy Jay."
Besides, church is waaaay better high. IMO.
A story in Exodus tells of how the egyptian ruler commanded the death of all males born (a law of that time) the midwives did not listen to their gov, and knew that it was wrong to kill even though that was their orders. God noticed this action and rewarded the women for doing right in His eye and not the laws.
God given laws are not the same as man made laws.
If all the rulers of the world set laws for evil intentions, would that make it right to sin?
What if they outlawed believing in Christ as your Lord and Savior. What about Daniel; who went against the law of the land by praying to God instead of the king or whatever. Surely there are exceptions; and cannabis smoking is definetally one of them. As it is through cannabis we are called Christian's (annointed ones) directly refering to the Holy Annointing Oil of Israel in wich every Christ, Messiah, High Priest, and King was required to be annointed with; along with the Aaronic priest hood. This oil was to be poured into the incense alters wich filled the tents with smoke; and this oil contained 6-9 pounds of cannabis known as "kaneh-bosm" in the original Arhamaic bibles and then the Hebrew but was mistranslated as "calamus" wich is a poison in Greek.:rasta:Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
didnt jesus use hash oils?
jesus was the first hippie, he smoked weed.
(again this is specifically for "Bible believing" people)
so are you all saying you don't think god cares that you are breaking the law? or you are saying that law is no longer applicable in this day? it was not clear from the posts...
from all i have read the bible is very clear, all throughout, not just one verse, about obeying authority. what would make this law an exception to that?
as for the question about if your government is asking you to sin... well that is another topic completely as they are asking you to not smoke, not asking you to do something wrong.
(please don't take this as being antagonistic... i believe in the wisdom of the bible completely, and just find this a challenging issue to ignore as smoking is a regular part of my life and is illegal where i live)
also, some people are confusing the angle. the angle is NOT asking if the act of smoking weed is immoral. i don't believe the bible says anything about it being immoral and i bet jesus did smoke weed. i don't think he was as boring and religious as most people portray him.
the angle is coming from the fact that it is illegal to do so and that violates core biblical issues of authority, obedience, rebellion, etc.
Correct me if i'm wrong but, isn't it against the law or just school politics to not teach religion in school. One example of the law demanding us to turn our backs on our heritage. Maybe that is why the world is in the downward spiral that it is. A form of mind/population control. Choose God or the Government? All inteligent life knows the difference between right and wrong, we don't need laws to tell us which is which. I feel the majority of laws are for control purposes in order to benifit the lawmaker, not the good of humanity.
Haze...The best thing I could tell you is that with many things in life there is not a clear right or wrong answer. What I would suggest is that you live your life as best as possible with the morals / values that you hold to be true. And when you make a mistake you say sorry, learn, and try to do better the next time. By being thankful and joyful and happy, you will be better off than most people.
Most stories in the Bible tell of in one form of another the Persection of Gods people by the government of that time. (evil)Man has always wanted the control of power. To create a law that would go against Gods intentions would be the smartest thing an evil person could do (if in fact we had to obey all laws) I like RR's answer, live life the best you can in Gods eyes not the laws.
first off seperation of church and state is a completely different topic but it also does not ask us to turn our backs on our heritage. it is simply protecting the freedom of religion for everyone. if we allowed prayer to jesus in schools, would that be fair for muslims or jews? in communist china they would ask you to turn your back on religion, not here. here we have the freedom to gather for religious reasons in school, public, anywhere... it is just not going to be organized by the schools.
richierich,
well before you can say that there is not a clear answer, you would have to explain how the clarity of obeying authority and laws are not clear in the bible... that is what i am trying to find out if anyone can find one...
your right about something...Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
unitedwefall...
sorry for playing devli's advocate but... does that mean if i believe that heroin is ok then it is fine to ignore the law banning it? do we all get to decide which one's have their place and which one's don't...?
I am not a Bible-tought Christian, but I talk and am around many.
From how it seems, Christians, like most groups, are OK with laws when they work with their beliefs. As the other guy said, ban Christianity and it'd be OK to go against the laws.
Whether or not Christians listen to the government is most likely going to be a political/personal choice, not a religious one, although it will be stated as such. One must know, however, that laws are made by humans and are therefore fallible.
I was actually the first to comment it being ok for Christians to go against the law of banning Christianity (Daniel and the lions den).
Anways, heroin is a completly different subject. Like the strong wine of the old testament; there are both positive and negative views in the bible concerning it. Bottom line, use don't abuse (if abuse with cannabis is possible).
I can understand if the law was asking you to do something unbiblical... but if it is asking you to refrain from an unnecessary behavior??? I see a big difference...
if you suddenly start saying there is room for exception due to personal opinion doesn't that open a pretty big door? there are people who can casually use harder drugs like coke and all... would that be alright for them? i have a friend who will do coke like a few times a year...
also, the reason i specified "bible believing" is because that intails people who would go by the commandments the bible states... not just made up exceptions that they see fit (i dont mean that rudely or saying you are wrong for doing it, just different then the mainstream definition of "bible believing"). from that perspective one would need to soundly defend a stance through scripture and not personal opinion... as we can change anything by personal opinion. ya know? there would need to be some scripture stating that if you disagree with a law you could disobey. but i probs won't bump into many peeps like that on here!!! :) pepople with this habit don't tend to be too publicly mainstream in church!
worshipping some invisible man in the sky that protects you from evil is not a necessary behaviorQuote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
master...
no need to throw in irrelevant and degredating remarks towards other people's beliefs.. let's stay on topic
There is a big difference between opinion and unnecessary behavior. Smoking cannabis isn't just a choice but Gods wish for all Christians. The word Christian itself means stoner. Proof needed?:rasta:Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
i am staying on topic, it is, in fact, not a necessary behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by hazetwostep
breathing is a necessary behavior, whicc brings up another question, if breathing was illegal, would you still do it? it would be illegal and going against you bible because your bible tells you to obey the laws of your land
people keep giving examples of when it is okay to ignore a law... they keep giving examples where the governemnt is asking people to commit a sin...
THIS IS DIFFERENT as the US government is not asking you to commit any sin. asking you to refrain from smoking is not asking you to commit an immoral act or an act that disagrees with the bible. the government saying to kill the innocent like herod commanded, would fall under that. asking you to worship a false idol would fall under that like Sharach, Meshach, and Abednego, and telling you not to pray to God like Daniel was told would fall under that.
breathing air is a necessity of life and cannot be taken. smoking is not so once again it would not relate to that exception!
asking you to abstain from smoking marijuana does not fall under a category of being asked to commit a sinful act by the government.
do you see the vast difference? if the governement asked you to refrain from smoking and the bible commanded you to smoke, that would apply there. as smoking is not a commandment, that exception to the rule does not apply.
if YOU have such a problem with smoking weed then dont do it. i personally think that the bible is a load of bullshit. i live my life guided by the morals that i believe in, not what some bullshit book tells me is right and wrong
How bout this, Who created the law, and why, and who said they were right?
If there is no major point for the law then are we letting people run our country that really shouldn't be. The stories in the bible usually tell of Gods people doing right, but the land that they reside in is usually run by someone that doesn't believe in those ways. So there is this non stop feud between good and evil, right and wrong, unnessesary laws, etc.. etc..
Do you need a law there to tell you that you are about to do something wrong. Something to just give you a line to cross. God said no man shall take the life of another man, yet who killed His son, because the law of that land thought they were doing something right. Then that would mean God created a law to tell man to obey man made laws, and in turn killed his own son because the men who did such were just following the law.
Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaChronic
He's right about the Bible being very clear on authority. The Bible is certainly no anarchist's manifesto. This is from the Sermon on the Mount:
So, according to Jesus, even if the government is compelling you to do something you don't want to do (or compelling you not to do something you want to do), you should comply. Even if you believe the government is acting unjust, and consider the law to be your enemy, you must obey it, for you are to love your enemies and do whatever is asked of you by anybody ever.Quote:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Fortunately for us, Jesus was an idiot and most of us know nowadays that it's okay to break unjust laws. If people based their interactions with authority on what the Bible has to say, slavery would still be in practice.
wow oneironaut... go out to the front of this section and read where it says to be respectful!!! thanks buddy... you like 12 or something? think it is cool to bash other people's beliefs??? cool
masterchronic... this question is from the perspective of bible believing people... simple... and i dont have a problem with smoking... i was asking a question that i was curious about...
everyone else..
the thing is nobody is answering from the angle i am asking. i am asking for reasoning of a "bible beliving/following" person in the mainstream sense of the term... this means that one's personal feeling that ignoring a silly law is reason enough for it to be fine, is not enough. i personally agree with that thinking, but the question is asking for answer from a "bible belieiving" (one who believes the bible is god's innerant word to guide our live's during this lifetime)... to justify smoking would require biblical backing that negated or over ruled the issue of it being illegal and therefore rebellious to do. if you are a "bible believing christian" in the mainstream sense of the term you can answer from that angle and please do... otherwise nevermind about this thread
Hey, the Bible started it. It called me a fool for saying in my heart that there is no God.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall
But seriously, Jesus was a complete idiot for saying what he did in the Sermon on the Mount. Saying to people that they should do whatever is asked of them by anybody, do whatever anybody compels them to do, and to give to anybody what they ask for, is idiotic. If we had that kind of mentality, just imagine how powerful the Nazis would be right now. "Oh, you want Poland Hitler? Fine, take it. What's that? You want me to kill the Jews. Sure, if you say so."
we are not talking about it asking you to do unjust things like banning a religion. we are talking about refraining from a hobby! we are not talking about medicinal uses as that has an exception to the law (in some places).
read the initial question carefully!!! everyone is missing it
unitewefall, thanks for backing me up on his uncalled for and immature comment
oneironaut,
that wasn't jesus message. jesus message was of a revolutionary love that would change the world... unfortunately i think the mainstream religion lost that back in the day and made it about unimportant stuff... (my personal opinion)
i love a quote i read of ghandi saying that if christians actually lived the life of love that jesus spoke of that he would become a christian... it was a cool quote
Well, I agree with your interpretation of the Bible. There is no way to justify breaking laws if you believe in the truth of the Bible.
I just happen to believe that there is no God and that the Bible, while it contains some good advice, also contains a good deal of bad advice.
I believe that humanity has actually progressed in its moral thinking during the past two millennia, and learning that it's a good thing to defend yourself is one of the lessons we've been taught again and again. Jesus was just plain wrong. If you don't like your faith being criticized, too bad for you I guess, because Biblical teaching clashes with modern ethics in too many ways to avoid criticism of the Bible's righteousness.
I agree with love and stuff, but you have to deal with the fact that there are lots of non-loving people in the world, who will occasionally try to wrong you. The correct response is to enact justice somehow, instead of being lazy and relying on some fictional god or karma to do it for you. Evil has to be resisted. Not resisting it is tantamount to letting it win.
i agree with your statement for many cases... i believe modern christianity has demasculanized men into pussies for the most part... i believe there is a time to turn the cheak and let things slide... and there are times to stand up and be strong
Well Jesus never said that. He didn't say "Resist not evil, unless it's really really evil like Hitler", and he didn't say "whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also, unless you don't feel like being a pussy today".
I find it rather amusing how often Christians rationalize acting contrary to Jesus' teachings. If I believed there was a text of moral precepts that were thought up by the omniscient creator of the universe, I would take them very seriously! But then again, the Bible is a very difficult text to take seriously...if I tried to follow it I would have no eyes because I lust after girls a lot and Jesus says eye-gouging is the correct solution to that.
actually he taught both. he taught there was a time to turn the cheek and a time to fight back... the scriptures talk about there being a season for everything.. a time for peace and a time for war.
I do not interpet the Bible to say I must Obey mans law. You can pick and choose passages to make the Bible say whatever you want.
The Bible also says: "Forgive and You will be Forgiven" "Judge and you will be Judged" "Do to others as you would have them do unto You"
What's more Cannabis was used in biblical times: for clothing, paper, cord, sails, fishnet, oil, sealant, incense, food, and in ceremony, relaxation and medicine.
For so the Lord said unto me, "I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs. For afore harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches." (Isaiah
18:4-5)
Hemp was used in this country for everything from rope clothes paper oil just like in the Bible until the government found prohibition to be more profitable.
Do you believe God created Marijuana? If not just where did it come from? Herbs are mentioned in the Bible repeatedly.
I don't like it when people talk about Marijuana and hard drugs as if they go together. They don't. There have been studies that prove Marijuana is not A GATEWAY drug. AND There are studies proving its legalization actually lowers the violent crime rate.
There are all sorts of new medical studies being done: MARIJUANA-LIKE COMPOUNDS MAY AID ARRAY OF DEBILITATING CONDITIONS RANGING FROM PARKINSON'S DISEASE TO PAIN
SAN DIEGO, October 26, 2004 ?? No longer a pipe dream, new animal research now indicates that marijuana-like compounds can aid a bevy of debilitating conditions, ranging from brain disorders such as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and Parkinson's disease, to pain and obesity.
In past studies, researchers determined that the main active chemicals in the drug marijuana produce a variety of effects by connecting to specific sites on nerve cells, called cannabinoid receptors. Researchers also discovered that these receptors normally bind to natural internal chemicals, dubbed cannabinoids.
??Understanding how marijuana and the brain's own natural cannabinoid system works is helping researchers design new medicines,? says cannabinoid expert Daniele Piomelli, PhD, of the University of California in Irvine.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 13 (UPI) -- Scientists said Thursday that marijuana appears to promote the development of new brain cells in rats and have anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects, a finding that could have an impact on the national debate over medical uses of the drug.
This is nothing NEW patients have been claiming it for years.
Other illegal and legal drugs, including opiates, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine, have been shown to suppress the formation of new brain cells when used chronically, but marijuana's effect on that process was uncertain.
Now, a team led by Xia Zhang of the department of psychiatry at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon may have found evidence the drug spurs new brain cells to form in a region of the brain called the hippocampus, and this in turn reduces anxiety and depression.
Marijuana appears "to be the only illicit drug whose capacity to produce increased ... neurons is positively correlated with its (anti-anxiety) and anti-depressant-like effects,"
http://www.hmnews.org/article2749.html
It is MY RIGHT to use marijuana. My back has been broken in 11 places. I have been on Morphine, oxycontin, viodin you name it.
I have even let them put a 6 inch long needle directly into my spine and pump meds directly into my spinal cord. Nothing helped.
All that happened was I slept all the time and if I was awake I hurt and I vomited non stop from the meds. I also had grand mal seizures. My life sucked big time. I did not have a life. My kids did not have a mom.
Someone suggested I try weed. I had not smoked it for over 20 years. I was in high school when I tried weed for the 1st time and I hated it so I never did it again until a few years ago.
Now I use a vaporizer and smoke weed everyday. I can spend all day awake with my family I never throw up and I no longer have to take Dilantin for seizures. I don't have to take any hard addictive pain killers.
So it is not a matter of breaking mans law it is a matter of my God given right to live and smoke weed. I am not alone there is case after case of people with cronic illness helped by weed.
How dare you throw your misguided interpetation of the Bible around without having done your research. You have not walked in my shoes.
What gives you the right to Judge anyone? GRRRRRRRRRRR :mad:
What about the parts of the Bible that actually instructs man to go against the government? What makes you think that marijuana being illegal is right. Why couldn't man's law be wrong? What evidence do you have that the marijuana law is a just one?
In the Old Testament there are a number of prominent examples of civil disobedience. In Exodus 1 and 2, when Pharaoh commanded the Hebrew midwives to kill all male Hebrew babies, they lied to Pharaoh and did not carry out his command.
The book of Daniel has a number of instructive examples. In Daniel 3, for example, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to bow down to the golden image and were cast into the fiery furnace. In Daniel 6 the commissioners and satraps had King Darius make a decree that no one could make a petition to any god or man for thirty days. Daniel nevertheless continued to pray to God three times a day and was cast into the lion's den.
The most dramatic example of civil disobedience in the New Testament can be found in Acts 4 and 5. When Peter and John were commanded not to preach the gospel, their response was, "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).
(please don't take this as being antagonistic... i believe in the wisdom of the bible completely, and just find this a challenging issue to ignore as smoking is a regular part of my life and is illegal where i live)
It is being antagonistic because for many people weed is a life saver. If you are not sick and it is bothering you that much then don't smoke. THe way you worded your question was antagonistic and you can't just say I'm not talking about medical marijuana because this is a battle we fight everyday and the law applies to US as well not just "Bible Readers" who smoke for recreation. How can your question not apply to everyone?
You questions make it appear as though YOU interpet the Bible to say we are sinners how can that not be taken as antagonization?
If you believe the Bible to be the final word WHY ARE YOU judging others?