whats wrong with this plant?

hello all i have a big problem... i'm doing hydrow and this started last week.. i put my plants in flowering last week and i still had the 4th week vegging nutes in the 5g bucket dwc.. well since i notice the leaves was dieing on me i give it a flush with strait tap water for 24hr then i give them the first week flowering nute.. i'm using G.H.3 FLORA-GROW FLORA MICRO FLORA BLOOM
AND SOME CAL-MAG 30ML 30ML 50ML
25ML
i did the the flush yesterday 12-12 and give it fresh nuts today.. i don't know yet if i fix the problem,but i'd like to know what i did wrong.. the temp stays 70 78 the humidity stays anywhere from 39 50... i have a fart fan bringing in fresh air and a (furnice) fan can't spell it.. lol pulling out and a little house fan.. any advise would help me so i don't do it again..:stoned: :stoned: thanks:) 1.00 MB (1,053,740 bytes)

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachmen...1&d=1166071308

i used the nutes in this order. 30ml flora-grow 30ml flora micro 50ml bloom 25ml cal-mag..

PH?

i haven't really seen anything like this, sorry, but i am sure you can find (or someone wil send you a link) some sort of chart or guide describing your plants' ailments so you can figure it out.

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Originally Posted by Big_House26

PH?

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thanks:) but i don't think it was the ph cuz i stayed on top of it.. would 5.4 be to low? i kept it at 5.4 when it got to 6.0 i brought it down with ph down or change the water..

thanks dutch love.. somebody will now.. lol (hopefully)

I always thought ideal ph was 5.8 except in the later stages of flower. don't know if that is your problem tho....they really do look pretty chewed...you're not spraying the leaves with anything are you?...good luck...

thanks weed 4 ur apply:) i have'nt been spraying them,but i did have my ppm up to 1300 1400.. i lowered my ppm to 1270 hoping thats the problem. if it aint that i don't know.. i'm new to hydro hopefully i can get her under control..:confused: :confused:

hello again:) i don't know if will help u,but i notice the problem is more on the older fan leaves..i've look through some pics and it favors a Magnesium problem. i use 25ml per 5g of cal-mag... if it's a mag problem how do i go about fixing it? i have some epsonsalt and some lime i just don't know how much to use or what way to use it.. any advise would really help.. thanks:confused: :confused:

I've never seen anything quite like that... but it's not a Mg problem. It looks almost like your plant has been attacked by fungus.. not sure though... potassium helps the plant fight off infections... I'd start looking at that... can't offer any more help, sorry.
For reference, the Mg def shows a very clear pattern of paling between the veins rather than a sort of random necrosis.

I feel better knowing I'm not the only one confused.....it is the randomness of it that seems so odd; that's why i wondered about spraying.....hope changing the ppms helps...

thanks guys for ur comments:) if it is some kind fungus what kind of fungus spray should i buy? can u make your own fungus spray? i'll try anything at this point.. lol:confused: :confused:

You can get Serenade at Walmart... certified organic... cheap... bacillus sp. beneficials... works great and even if you don't have problems it at least won't HURT.

I have what looks like that too. Or similar. Hell I dont know, but I'll try to post a pic after a while. My humidity is only about 30% and I didnt think I could get any fungusy type situations.

Here's a pic.

Could be manganese.

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Manganese Helps enzymes break down for chlorophyll and photosynthesis production, as well as it works with plant enzymes to reduce nitrates before producing proteins.

Having plants that are deficient in manganese can turn the young leaves into spotted (mottled) yellow and or brown areas on young leaves. Dead (Necrotic) yellow spots form on top leaves, while the lower older leaves will or may have gray specks and or spots. Symptoms can include yellowing of leaves while the leaf veins can stay green. Can also produce a chequered effect. As the plant gets newer growths the plant will seem to grow away from the problem, thatâ??s why the younger leaves may be unaffected. On the top of the leaves, brown spots can appear. While the severe areas of the leaves turn brown and wither. Parts Affected by a Manganese deficiency are: Young leaves.


Too much Manganese in the soil will cause an iron deficiency. The blotchy leaf tissue is caused by not enough chlorophyll synthesis. Your plants will seem to have very weak vigor caused by the excessive amount of manganese.

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http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

hello all:o here's some better pics:( [ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][attachment=o106496][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

this is a pic of the roots.. they looked tangled up r they surpose to look like that?[attachment=o106502]

http://gallery.cannabis.com/data/500/medium/W_R_21.jpg this is my other whie rhino roots they looked better formed.. if u guys see anything wrong with the roots let me know,, thank you.. p.s. i put som liq karma in the water i did't want u to think it was root rot...

My rootballs are quite tangly too. Not near as dark as yours though.

i put some liq karma in ther. it makes it look like root rot. by the way mister e did u fix ur problem yet? if u did plz write me back and tell me what u did ok;)

No I sure didnt fix my problem. I feel like I'm working on several issues at once.

My pic is not so clear, but my spotting has yellow/light brown in the center of the spot, then a border of darker brown.

On one plant, 2 of the biggest fan leaves from the same node curled upwards at the edges and got worse and I trimmed them about half way off (I leave the stem and some leaf area so it's less shock to the plant/branches). I just hated seeing them that way.

My red stemming bugs me too, and now the new growth looks lighter green than previously, curling downward, and feeling a bit stiff. lol

So yeah I've got several issues I think.

On the plus side (I guess) they're both short and very bushy.

how cold does it get at night? i've read somewhere thats what causes the stems to turn red..

Well thats the thing. Red stems can naturally occur when it's fall time and you've got outdoor plants and it frosts or is near frost. But they can also indicate nute lock, immobile nute, deficiencies..
Just based on my reading that is. Search the board for "red stems" and you'll see a dozen various things about it.

My room temp doesnt get below 68 that I've seen. High near 80. Humidity at 22% currently. Water temp at 70.

My brown spots first showed up when I was using tap water and treating it quite regular with H2O2 because I'd get a white froth in the water otherwise.

I've changed to RO water since then and using calmag.

thats what i'm using now is tap water.. ppm of the waster is 150 and the ph is 7.1 but i let the water set 24hr b4 i use it.. i cant afford that good water.. lol i hope i dont to to go there,, :confused:

Earlier I said it could be manganese deficiency but now I think it is potassium toxicity, which can cause deficencies with other elements.

Go to the link in my sig Plant Problem Guide. Scroll down the page a bit to the potassium section.

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When you have too much Potassium in your soil, it can lead to big troubles, like salt damage and acid fixation of the root system, as well as too much potassium can cause a calcium deficiency. Your fan leaves will show like a light to a dark yellow to whitish color in between the veins. Due to a molecular imbalance, potassium toxicity can cause a reduced uptake and lead to the deficiencies of Mg, and in some cases, Ca. Also leads to the other nutrients to not be absorbed properly leading to lots of other deficiency such as: magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron and can cause problems with calcium as well.

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your overferting back right down to 400ppm and come back up your roots are brown from 2 much ferts and your roots cant take it

i will find a pic of a healthy root ball

Potassium was my guess too. Whatever the problem it is manifesting itself as deficiencies but is surely due to nutes locking out. You are right to flush. Do like HappyBudder says and Flush...Drop your nutes down(400ppm could be slightly low) and then bring them back up. Get your nutes to about 900-1000 ppm and let it ride there wait a week and see if any defiencies show up. If they do, diagnose them and treat the problem with the proper supplements.
I do not think with tap water at 150 you should use Cal-Mag. I would try leaving that out until you see a problem forming. Nothing I have seen looks like Mag. I recently went through a build up and lock out situation and learned to flush with ph'ed water every other resi change.

Good luck -Jay

thanks all for the great advise:) if i bring the ppm dowd to 400 will that shock them? i have a bottle of floracleen by g.h. but it says only use it 4hrs then drain and put new nute's in.. now when i flush with floracleen can i leave that floracleen in there overnite without hurting anything or do the 4hr deal? one said leave the cal-mag for awhile. i was using alittle of liq karma is that a good thing to use? sorry for all the Q'S.. thanks:)

looks like a fungus...I checked manganese toxidity, and I don't think that is it...I thought you might've sprayed somethiing on them, but I saw you say no to that...your low 5.4 ph might've caused an imbalance...so keep ph around 5.8 and see if that straightens it out.

thanks latewood:) i'm giving the plant another flushing, this time with florakleen overnight then i'm going to refill the res ahd lower my nute to 400 and see what happens.. wish me luck.. lol i hope the florakleen don't hurt the plant overnight, it say to use it 4 hrs then change..

OK...after sleeping and looking at your roots...I say this.

your roots are OK, especially if you are using Liquid Karma. DO NOT use h2o2 in rezx w/organics. LK is organic.

I think that your value of 50ml bloom along withy the rest of your values is causing a phosphorous mobile...i.e. cut back the nutes to 30-30-30- and 15ml calmag. forget flushing more than a day. I probably would've just added ph water to replace some of the nutrient solution. maybe 1-2 gallons.

You see ph of 5.4 makes nitrogen less available and P-K more available, plus you amped up the value of the Bloom, and therefore I think you got too much phosphorous available for uptake. hope this helps, peace

FYI, everyone. RO filters can be purchased on ebay for around 80 bucks...It is more than worth it! Remember the plant needs water...Why not provide your plants with the best water you can?

Whenever you feel you have a deficiency...there are 2 options...flush with ph water, or dilute solution by replacing 50% of the solution in rez, with phwater.
Some experts even claim that you should just dump your rez and add a full strength nute solution immediately.

thanks latewood;) i think that was my problem ph at 5.4.. i gived it a flushing lastnight with some florakleen.. the roots look white and heathy:) then i gave her 1\2 nute the ppm was 725 and the ph set at 5.9.. hopefully she'll pull through.. the only thing i really dont understand is when to use the cal-mag or the liq karma.. can u sum that up 4 me? again thanks:) p.s. during flowering whats the ideal p.h for flowering?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Hi there, OK this is a bit of a long story. I've been growing for a few months now without problems, until now. I was about 3 weeks in to veg and light hazy white spots appeared, this then turned into a rusty colour unknown thing that worked its way across the leafs. The middle aged to older leaves. In some cases there were small holes through the leaves. I pruned off all the affected leaves and flushed the system. After a few days the problem slowly started coming back. I'm still holding the plant in veg until i sort this out. The plant has now been vegging for about 6 weeks and in the last week the leaves have gone light yellow, lime green colour and a couple of days ago I've noticed the leaf edges curling up. Please anyone who has seen this before help me out, its terrorising my plant and I'm smoking my self stupid!! :stoned: . I've included photos which cover the whole period up to present day. I'm growing in an NFT system, ph is permanently between 5.8 and 6.2 (obviously I'm aiming for 5.8-6.0. I'm using canna aqua veg, temp is between 70f and 75f and humidity is floating between 55% and 75%. I also recently added canna trace elements to the nutrients but hasn't noticeably done anything. I must confess to not forcing fresh air in or forcing stale air out. I've just got free flowing air through 2 vents (i don't know how much this will affect the plant of if its enough to do this?) All help appreciated, if you find any information fasts I'll be watching this post. Ill keep you up to date with anything i find.

percy, your description of light hazy white spots... then the pics of the necrotic scarred patches... I'm thinking thrips... look for their tiny blond larvae on the leaf surfaces... they look like a splinter... they leave pale, almost shiny silvery chew trails on the upper surfaces of the leaves, working from the bottom of the plnat up.
But you have something else going on there too I think. hmmm....
Why don't you start a new thread with these pics, since it is a differnt prob?

Percy, I don't think it's thrips (I had lots of problems with them two grows back), I have a plant doing the same as in this thread, and I'm not in hydro, only 2-3 weeks to harvest so I gave up after 2 flushes.

thrip damage doesn't look like that at first, but on my plants that had it, once I put them under the 1k hps, the damaged bits went brown just like that. ima stick this in the new thread too.

EVERYONE PERCY HAS HIS OWN THREAD IN HYDRO RE: THIS PROB! :D

Thanks stinkyattic an 4x4. Yea i've started a new thread in hydroponics. i'l look in to the thrips and see where that takes me. See you in hydro.:thumbsup: