stunted growth

I tend to ramble sometimes, like most stoners, so please bear with me. Iâ??ll try to stay on point, but thereâ??s a lot of stuff to say. So I guess youâ??ll have to allow for some rambling. But flame if you must. Also, please try to keep in mind this is only a medical, fun, hobby, type grow. This grow is for personal use only and itâ??s a learning thing. But I would like to be rewarded for my efforts with some decent smokage someday though.
Sadly, my plants are stunted. Iâ??ve tried a lot of stuff to get â??em to flourish, but theyâ??re still small. Only 3â?� tall at about 2 months old. This is my second attempt. The first ones didnâ??t even last this long. I think I over-watered, over-nuted, and just loved them to death. When I pulled my dead babies out of the pots, I found the soil in the bottom of the pots to be almost soggy. So for my second soil mix I used a lot more perlite along with peat moss, dolomite, and potting soil mix. I also drilled bigger drain holes in the potâ??s bottoms and put some rocks in there before the soil mix, hopping that would help drainage. I started this grow in the old pots (but new mix) but the pots still werenâ??t draining or getting air to the roots so I wrote here asking for advise. Stinkyattic suggested I drill big holes in the pots making them like Swiss cheese. Yeah, hardy, har, har, har! I tried it, and made some big â??ole cheese holes, but then transplanted to these pots Iâ??m using now anyway, after there was no visible improvement and my moisture meter was still reading high for the pot bottoms after a week or so of trying. (Ramble, ramble, ramble).I have my babies in a little Mylar walled cabinet and have six 27W cool cfls going. I usually have to shut down four of â??em in the afternoons when the temps get upwards toward 85F, but theyâ??re on mornings and evenings. I have the cab doors open and a desk fan going about a foot outside the cab door. I also a have little computer fan going in the back of the cab for some exhaust, but it sucksâ?¦literally. I try to keep the little buggers about 2â?� from the light. The plants are on an 18/6 schedule right now. I water with Ph (6.6 to 6.8) distilled water. I tried this cheap ass Expert Rhododendron and Azalea fertilizer because it was 30-10-10, so I thought itâ??d be good. But even diluted in half from the recommended, I think it burned â??em. And I donâ??t think I will use it again. Iâ??m not thinking they need to be flushed as Iâ??ve only nuted once and Iâ??m not confident they could take the stress of it. Iâ??m kind of shy about using more superthrive too. I tried foliar feeding with that stuff in the water thinking maybe they needed a kick in the roots, but nothing there, either. I tried some Epsom salts in that foliar feeding water when I thought it might be a Mg deficiency. But after a week or so of that, no change. Iâ??m thinking Iâ??ll find what they need sometime and theyâ??ll just take off. Overall, they look fairly good to me, just so damn small. Smell good too. The bottom leaves do die and fall off, but Iâ??ve read some growers saying donâ??t worry about it. Itâ??s just a natural process the plant goes through. Then again, Iâ??ve read others say, â??Bullshitâ?�. Damn opinionated folks, them. I say whatever floats your boat. Iâ??m thinking I should drill some more air holes in these pots, again. That was kind of fun anyway. They do like the distilled water better than rainwater. Ph was a little high (7.0) in the rainwater before so maybe I was getting lock-out. But I wouldnâ??t think 7.0 would do it. Any suggestions here really appreciated. Even though this is slow, Iâ??m looking long term anyway, as long as I donâ??t get busted. 21g gets you a felony, fine, and a mandatory minimum incarceration here. Moving is always a hassle, but jail would just suck, especially for something like cannabis. So hey, toke on kids. Oh, and by the by, one of my babies might be Blueberry. The seeds are from an indoor mix but something sure smells sweet and fruity and I can only hope sheâ??s a chick, if it is berry. Berry, berry goot. (Steve Martin, SNL flashback?)
P.S. Those are plastic shopping bags you see under the pots. I use â??em to catch shit and I try keep â??em loose so they wonâ??t cut off any air.

Ummmm, are those plastic bags under those pots all the time? Is the pot itself resting on the bag or above it with air in between) If not you may have just solved your drainage problems......really how much air is getting in there through a plastic bag, loose? or otherwise.

No, actually those bags are underneath everything and not blocking anything. Those pots have removable bases with the actual drain holes for the pots inside that base. I think you might have hit on something there though. Maybe I'll try removing those bases and set the pots up off the shelves a little somehow and dry everything out for a few days. That might well be the problem. Thanks. Sometimes it just takes another set of eyes to see an obvious problem.

It's easy to control your growing medium with young seedlings by using small container. Start with small coffee cups until they have 3 to 5 set of true leaves then transplant into small nusery container.
Young seedlings do not need any nutrients until they have three set of true leaves. First feeding should be a mild dose of B vitamins such as Liquid Karma,5ml per liter of water or B52, 5ml per liter of water ...

Is there any thing you want to know? Just post your questions we will try to help if we can.

Cheer

Ok I think I know what you mean...can you snap the pot and base together and them snap them apart? Make sure the little spikes in the bases arent blocking your holes.....hope that does solve it for you...

well brotha this is what i would do cuz after 2 months you should be almost ready for harvesting. if i were you i'd go and get some good quality seeds, not bagseed. i than would go to the hydroponic store or growshop and get some good 3 to 4 gallon pots that don't have that snap off bottum, and good big drainage holes. i actually used to have those exact same ones. add some lava rocks or those little rocks for hydroponics at the bottum. (if you get lava rocks for a grill wash them off really really good, no dust). get some good foxfarm soil. and fill em up. i'd than decide what to fertilize with and follow the instructions for christ sake, haha. and nothing to hardcore powerful, if its got good genetics it shouldn't treat yah bad. as for watering don't overwater. and don't do it here or there. just do alot of watering 1 day and see how it handles. if it its no good than lower it a bit, or raise it accordingly. none of the watering a little here and a little there. try to give it a good amount to last it. good luck.

measure how much you water it, if the leaves start to droop, add less water next time, until you get the right amount... its not hard..

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Ok I think I know what you mean...can you snap the pot and base together and them snap them apart? Make sure the little spikes in the bases arent blocking your holes.....hope that does solve it for you...

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Exactly. Cool design but I think they don't breathe so they kinda suck.

[QUOTE=Tupamaro;1089213 .[/QUOTE]

after 2 months you should be almost ready for harvesting.[

Damn dude. You be the fastest mofo around.

if i were you i'd go and get some good quality seeds, not bagseed.

I wrote the seeds were from mixed indoor. They are supposed to be quality, they came from a top rated medical marijuana sight.

as for watering don't overwater. and don't do it here or there. just do alot of watering 1 day and see how it handles. if it its no good than lower it a bit, or raise it accordingly. none of the watering a little here and a little there. try to give it a good amount to last it. good luck

I'm thinking the same about the water. I try to keep to a regular watering schdule of every third day and go from there with how the plants take it. But I think I'm not so good reading the plants yet, plus those damn pots are throwing it all off. I guess I'm gonna have to just dry everything out for 4 or 5 days, anyway, then give 'em water, and go from there.

i than would go to the hydroponic store or growshop and get some good 3 to 4 gallon pots that don't have that snap off bottum, and good big drainage holes. i actually used to have those exact same ones. add some lava rocks or those little rocks for hydroponics at the bottum. (if you get lava rocks for a grill wash them off really really good, no dust). get some good foxfarm soil. and fill em up. i'd than decide what to fertilize with and follow the instructions f


I probably should repot again and get different soil, like Fox Farm if I can find it. No hydroponics stores anywhere near this country fried burg. I definitely will get new pots and soil mix for the next grow but I'm gonna try and salvage this. I did put some rocks, not lava rocks on the bottoms. And I did rinse 'em first.

Thanks for the input. I tried taking those false bottoms right off and setting the pots on top of some little junk to hold them off the shelf. If they still read wet on the moisture meter, after a few days, I plan to drill more holes. I'm thinking better drainage and Ph adjusted water schedule are the keys here. By the way, you said you had those same pots before. Did you ever get a successful grow out of them? I'm thinking you didn't though cause you advise repotting, now. I'm not so keen on stressing them more (hermaphrodites?), but they're gonna need some kind of a jolt anyway to fix 'em. In the long run they'lll be better off.

I have used them--they really do work fine if you don't block the little holes (when you put the two parts together they tend to slip into a locking position by themselves, the asswipes, but with good draining soil etc (I think I used different bases after awhile) they worked fine. Just make sure that wherever you set the pot it is ABOVE the base so there is airflow between them--an inch or two between the bottom and the ground or base. I stick a flat couple of pencils or something between them.

One last note--I used a moisture meter for awhile and it sucked big time. The stuff that was wet it said dry and vice versa. I think I tossed mine under the wheels of my car one day and I don't miss it a bit.

starting over is always an option as they should be alot further along in 2 months would not hesitate to use superthrive on them to see if it will help them come out of it.
would keep it simple with good potting soil and perlite you dont need any rocks.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

One last note--I used a moisture meter for awhile and it sucked big time. The stuff that was wet it said dry and vice versa. I think I tossed mine under the wheels of my car one day and I don't miss it a bit.

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Thanks. Good on ya Weedhound. Aussies say that and I kinda like it. Yeah, it took stupid 'ole me until I dropped an empty pot I was looking at, and it came apart, before I figured out how they worked. Meanwhile my first gow died while I scratched my head. Why...., I oughta...., sue the bastards. This grow ain't breathing too good either, even with the pots opened up. But it is awful easy for those bases to get stuck into the holes, and then sometimes a pain in the ass to pry them apart, so I'm just discarding them. I'm doing sort of that pencil thing. But I'm using 3 stick pens (we got a bunch of 'em) that I taped together to make a triagular base for each pot. Thanks for those words on that meter. I was always suspicious of it. I guess the 'ole "finger in the dirt" method is the best anyway. Under the wheels of your car. Damn. :thumbsup: Probably would have still worked about the same after that. Damn things.

Sounds like the pen thing will work fine. Well you are smarter than me because someone actually showed me how those pots and bases work and I still blew it....think I got em at Walmart. Oh that meter thing made me crazy! I could SEE the soil was wet but nooooo....You will find once you settle your drainage problems that your plants will be much more forgiving if you overwater a little....not a lot...a little. If you have something you can stick up into the holes to help areate that will help drainage too. Careful of the little roots tho.

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Originally Posted by qdavid

after 2 months you should be almost ready for harvesting.[

Damn dude. You be the fastest mofo around.

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2 weeks veg, 6 weeks flower. not that hard to calculate. 8 weeks on my calender usually means 2 months.

I tried that kinda carefully poking up through the drain holes to aerate with a wooden chop stick. One plant"s taking off. It worked!But one of the babies is still dawdling. I guess I'm just gonna kind of watch and hope, for a couple days, and see what happens. Got some RO yesterday. I plan on Ph adjusting, and adding a drop of superthrive in the dawdlers water tommorow. Maybe even wait another day before more water. I'll just have to see how she's doing. Each plant has a different schedule, the runts. But one of 'em's taking off anyways. THANKS. By the way. Ain't 2 wks. veg a little short? Math never was my big subject though. :D
For clones I can see it. Don't mean to piss you off or anything. Just curious. "Flame if you must".

Glad to hear one shorty is moving on up. I had some really poor drainage in some outdoor stuff I grew and even after I corrected the problem they never did get to their full potential. My understanding is that too much water keeps the roots from being able to grow and when I pulled my little devils (I gave them a month in new potting soil) they just never did develop a healthy root system. It's a live and learn thing you know?

Tup, are you doing clones? I'd sure as hell love to get my grow down to 8 weeks from 12--I start from seed; 2 weeks seedling, 4 weeks veg (top everyone at least twice) then 6 weeks flower. I tried cloning once awhile back but completely sucked at it (what a shock!). I did try one set that I didn't top but was not impressed with the resulting yield.

do you know how many lumens your lights are putting out?

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Originally Posted by socialinjustice

do you know how many lumens your lights are putting out?

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I threw out the packages but I think it totalled up to like 2600 X 6 = 15,600 range, or something like that.

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Originally Posted by qdavid

By the way. Ain't 2 wks. veg a little short? Math never was my big subject though. :D
For clones I can see it. Don't mean to piss you off or anything. Just curious. "Flame if you must".

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your plant could triple in size during flowering. so basically if your growing indoors its a good idea to put them into flower 2 weeks in. i mean 2 weeks your plants should at least be on its 3rd or 4th node.

ok so you have enough lumes, maybe its just your strain man

That plant that started taking off, is sort of stationary right now. I hope it's gathering steam for a big 'ol break-out. The other plant is looking pretty sickly. It might have a root rot. If so, it's probably a goner. And I think I overestimated my lumens. It's more like 1600 per bulb, and 6 bulbs making that 1600 x 6 = 9600. Those bulbs I'm using now are cools. I have some
42W warms (4 bulbs) and some 42W softs (4 bulbs there too because the main fixture in the cab is a 4 bulb fixture, and I fucked up buying them softs, but I use 'em around the house anyway). Still I don't think adding any of those other bulbs in the cab would help vegging because they're the wrong temps, or would it?. So maybe the weakass lighting is part of the problem. Combined with soil like clay, pots that don't drain, and a grower whose an idiot, the little dudesses are getting the short end. Poor babies:(

the more light the better man. i read somewhere that the BARE MINIMUM of light you can have is 2000-3000 lumens per square foot. try transplanting into a different soil too. i did this because my plant was very stunted and in the last week its really began to take off. also try adding 2 cool and 1 warm, and putting a plate underneath your pots rather than a plastic bag. also let the soil get really dry the next few times before you water. the bigger the roots, the bigger the plant. good luck

I already ditched those bags along with those dip-ass bottoms that came with those pots, and the pots are over plates now. Great minds think alike I guess. I have a small cab, only 13'X 27" and 33" high, so it might make that lumen threshold now, but I'm gonna add one of those 42W warms with 2 cools for each plant, like you mentioned, and dry those babies out for 5-6 days, at least. I was thinking along those lines too. They've gone two days now since last water and few more might be just what the doctor ordered. I know I'm being supid not wanting to repot right now into different soil, but they were already repotted once and the prodcedure was kinda tedious, and I am a lazy sumbitch. I figure I can wait a week, and do that other stuff now and see if I get results. For that one plant with possible root rot it won't matter much, so anyway we're talking probably only repotting the one other. So we'll wait a week, I guess. Thanks for the suggestions.

David, first off how are you? Hope all is well.

Re: The plants - it seriously looks like some sort of nutrient lock or something, flush then re-pot.

Here's how I start mine. (I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way but this is what works for me).
For four plants and a medium yeild.

Soak and germinate seeds as usual (paper towel method).
The pots you have are fine.
I then get 3-4 cheap growbags, cut them all open in the bath and thoroughly mix in about 20-30% pearlite, that's it - no water no nutes, nothing (there's enough nutes in the grow bag crap to keep 'em going for a while).
Put about 2" of small stones (about ½-1" in diameter) in the bottom of the pots which have holes drilled all over the bottom. Fill with the mix DON'T PACK DOWN - put the mix in lightly (sprinkle it in with your hands).
Then seeds into pots (you know the lighting requirements).
DON'T WATER right away!
That's it - and don't feed at all for the first three to four weeks.

You want a plant looking like this after 2-3 weeks (see the soil).

Glad to see you're still around!

Hall

Good to hear from you Hall. Good advise. Nice little lady you got in that pic too. If this current thing, I'm trying, doesn't work out, I'm thinking flush and repot like you say. I was thinking that lock-out thing too, so I may well be going that flush route.But what I can't understand about that is, I only nuted them once, a few weeks ago, and I diluted those nutes a lot back then. I wouldn't think once wouldn't be enough to cause this, but I suppose it could. Today(23rd) is actually their 2 mo. birthday. Persnickity little biothes. Biotches I hope, anyway.

I tried drying my plants out for 5 or 6 days, then watered them as usual. No change after a dayor so. So yesterday I repotted into my "Swiss cheese" pots. I washed 'em out good first. Then puts some small rocks in the bottoms. Then I mixed up 45% sphagnum peat moss, 35% perlite, 25% potting soil, a handfull of dolomite, in each pot. I saw thread where a grower reccomended that mix, and it sounded good to me. When I transplanted, I carefully took the root system of each plant and swished it around in a bowl of water with a couple drops of superthrive in it, to kind of clean off the roots. The roots (about 4" each)
looked okay except not as white as I'd like, and a lot of a vertical, with little horizontal growth. These full pots are a lot lighter than my old ones, like half the weight. Then I let the babies settle for a couple hours, then gave them about a half cup of Ph 6.4 (kind of low, I know) RO. If all this works out, I'm planning to nute 'em a little after I see a couple new nodes while watering during a that 3rd day watering cycle, or whatever they like, to get that N up. Should I? I'm thinking too, all this stress might give me boys, or at least hermies, but I'm looking at this all as a learning thing and how to get a grow to flourish. Smokage out of this is a bonus. I also got this bigger oscilllating fan but it doesn't keep the temps in my cab any lower than the small desk job I was using. Afternoons get freaking hot in this here southland, ya'll. I also wanted to mention that your IP address changes every session on a dial up. Dial up is slow and that sucks, but that's a good security thing. When they do get highspeed out to hickvillle here, I plan to get "anonymizer" ($30) or something that hides my IP as I surf. By the way Hall, I've actually never seen those "growbags" anywhere. I guess they must be pretty common though, cause Ive seen 'em discussed a lot. Does Wally World or Lowes or Home Depot caryy those growbags? Garden supply shops are few and far between around here.

Q if you have any extra seeds and can spare a few I'd toss one in each pot because I don't think you're going to see too much action from those things--I kept waiting for mine to "take off" after replanting them and they just never did. They were like little bonsai plants. If you have all that great soil etc why not at least give a few newbies a chance if you can?

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Q if you have any extra seeds and can spare a few I'd toss one in each pot because I don't think you're going to see too much action from those things--I kept waiting for mine to "take off" after replanting them and they just never did. They were like little bonsai plants. If you have all that great soil etc why not at least give a few newbies a chance if you can?

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Good thought. I do have some other seeds. Maybe I should wait a little to see if anything happens? I was also wondering about pulling the stunted ones eventually so the roots don't get tangled with the "new" ones? That could screw it all up again, I suppose.