how come..

how come alot of atheists and agnostics can admit their speculations about god may be wrong, but christians, and other people who believe in god, can't admit they may be wrong? i dunno exactly where this question came from, it's 4:30 in the morning and i'm just sitting here thinking... and this popped in... but seriously, even i admit, i may be wrong in saying there is no god (although that doesn't mean i'm going to pick up a bible and start thumpin' around) but i have never met even one christian, who can admit that they MAY be wrong...

any speculation into this matter?

I've noticed a similar thing among many "new age" people too.
Perhaps it's out of fear. Perhaps they believe in an insecure God who will punish them for doubting him!

I believe in God, but I believe that God wants nothing, and that God is part of me and all that is. It's a belief though, not a fact :)

The most obvious answer is they're under the threat of hell if they dare to even doubt. But on consideration it goes much deeper than that. There's something in man's make-up that says 'threaten my beliefs and I'll hate you'. That seems to go for any belief or ideology-even political beliefs. You can see it even with a bumpersticker. Stick on "God is not a Republican' or that fish with legs that says 'Darwin' in the center, and watch the vicious scowls you'll get. You can see the hatred in their eyes.

That's why you have Jehods, witch hunts, snipers at abortion clinics.....the only sane people in the world are those who question EVERYTHING.

I think you're ignoring a lot of openminded christians, I think I've even come across a couple of them here on the boards.

But as for your topic, actually, I've noticed a trend among atheists to act the same way. In that they refuse to accept other possibilities outside of what they've established for themselves.

Once upon a time I had this theory that found correlation between atheism and catholicism (since a catholic upbringing is one of the surest ways to bring about an atheist youth) and held that the mode of belief never changes, simply the object of belief. So the idea of "god" or "no god" is ascribed to with equal and in fact identical fanaticism.

thoughts?

I think your talking about the far right Christians or the born again Christians who are a fucking hazard in my opinion. Chirstianity has to be, out of the all the religious regimentations, probaly the most open minded, that's why its the most popular religion in the World.

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Originally Posted by MegaOctane12

I think your talking about the far right Christians or the born again Christians who are a fucking hazard in my opinion. Chirstianity has to be, out of the all the religious regimentations, probaly the most open minded, that's why its the most popular religion in the World.

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I dont think that is why it is most popular. It didn't spread across the world because it was so great it was spread by blood



I just think atheists arn't so tied to their beliefs. If it turned out there was budda or whatever, sweet.

I am an atheist because i think it is the most reasonable belief (no offence)
so if new information came to light i would change my belief

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Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho

how come alot of atheists and agnostics can admit their speculations about god may be wrong, but christians, and other people who believe in god, can't admit they may be wrong? i dunno exactly where this question came from, it's 4:30 in the morning and i'm just sitting here thinking... and this popped in... but seriously, even i admit, i may be wrong in saying there is no god (although that doesn't mean i'm going to pick up a bible and start thumpin' around) but i have never met even one christian, who can admit that they MAY be wrong...

any speculation into this matter?

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I've been indirectly labeled a "Reiligious nut" on these boards, lol! :D I have my beliefs, and they stem from the Bible, but I'm quite open minded. There is a lot of grey area when it comes to religious thought, and the black and white views seem grossly outdated to me.

Some would call me a Christian since I follow Jesus' teachings, but I certainly wouldn't count myself among the flock. I view Jesus as a teacher first and foremost...like Ghandi, and the Buddha. I was raised Christian, so Jesus gets the credit for what I believe. Did Jesus save me? He saved me from myself, so yes...


Much Love,

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Originally Posted by harris7

I dont think that is why it is most popular. It didn't spread across the world because it was so great it was spread by blood



I just think atheists arn't so tied to their beliefs. If it turned out there was budda or whatever, sweet.

I am an atheist because i think it is the most reasonable belief (no offence)
so if new information came to light i would change my belief

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Totaly disagree man, I'm no theologian, but I know that countrys like Africa for example, and the majority of its states adopted Christianity, so that pretty much flattens the blood ties argument. Given though that's mainly because of economical reasons.

You don't see people blowing themselves up in the name of the Church but you do get fanaticals who practice their own literal interperetations over what's actually there. This is in every faith and if you want to point the finger I could think of alot worse. I think that if Religion were a competition Christianity would be the closest thing to perfect, although its not even close.

So I totally disagree man, even the most extreme Christian fundamentalist, at worse, setbacks society, he dosen't destroy it. I think you need to take that into account if you want to draw comparisons between the different faiths around.

I think there are plenty of christians and atheists who are open to the idea that they're wrong, but nobody on these boards has a debate to convince their opponent of "here's why I may be wrong: number one......". Everybody arives at their conclusions, at least for the most part, because it seems like the most logical answer to them. I'm an atheist, but that's not because it's my "religion" that I blindly cling to (as many theists try to argue), but because there's no logical reason to believe in god that I've yet seen. If somebody suddenly presents me with a reason to believe in god, something that isn't logically fallable, then I'll gladly become a believer.... not to mention let out a sigh of relief that I'm not going to blink out of existence one day.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I think there are plenty of christians and atheists who are open to the idea that they're wrong, but nobody on these boards has a debate to convince their opponent of "here's why I may be wrong: number one......". Everybody arives at their conclusions, at least for the most part, because it seems like the most logical answer to them. I'm an atheist, but that's not because it's my "religion" that I blindly cling to (as many theists try to argue), but because there's no logical reason to believe in god that I've yet seen. If somebody suddenly presents me with a reason to believe in god, something that isn't logically fallable, then I'll gladly become a believer.... not to mention let out a sigh of relief that I'm not going to blink out of existence one day.

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I'm not sure what you meant there about nobody has a debate to convince their opponent? Which side are you referring. I've seen plenty of good logical debate against the exsistance of God, but religious people are incapable of listening to it. If you think about it there are logically reasons to belief in God. Economical, cultural reasons; and many other thing's. Logic to someone who dosen't share your belief, whatever that may be, would be alien to you and vise versa. Its not about whether God is factual or that it can be proven. Its whether having faith in God has a purpose either way.

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

I think there are plenty of christians and atheists who are open to the idea that they're wrong, but nobody on these boards has a debate to convince their opponent of "here's why I may be wrong: number one......". Everybody arives at their conclusions, at least for the most part, because it seems like the most logical answer to them. I'm an atheist, but that's not because it's my "religion" that I blindly cling to (as many theists try to argue), but because there's no logical reason to believe in god that I've yet seen. If somebody suddenly presents me with a reason to believe in god, something that isn't logically fallable, then I'll gladly become a believer.... not to mention let out a sigh of relief that I'm not going to blink out of existence one day.

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Some quotes out of the Bible that speak to me personaly...They really helped to form my beliefs...



Luke 8:11

11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.



John 1:1-4

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.



John 10 27-30

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.



1 John 4:8

8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.



John 10:14

4. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


Love is pure, it comforts, and leads us out of darkness. Our carnal nature is to embrace anger, fear, bitterness, violence, and hate. Love takes these away, and can give us serenity in time. If God is Love, then he opposes that which makes our hearts dark, and when we embrace him,[Love] he allows us to be free from these things. Serenity is the 'fruit' when you let the seed take root, and grow.

The seed is Love, and also the word of God, and God. (It's not the Bible) Jesus claimed to be one with God, and this simply means that he was "one with Love". This is my understanding; others will certainly disagree...


Much Love...

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Originally Posted by MegaOctane12

I'm not sure what you meant there about nobody has a debate to convince their opponent?

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What I was saying is that nobody holds a debate to disprove themselves, only to disprove their opponents. Hence, the "not considering the other viewpoint", in my humble opinion, is largely the result of a preocupation with proving what they already believe, rather than listening to what their opponent believes.

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Which side are you referring. I've seen plenty of good logical debate against the exsistance of God, but religious people are incapable of listening to it. If you think about it there are logically reasons to belief in God. Economical, cultural reasons; and many other thing's. Logic to someone who dosen't share your belief, whatever that may be, would be alien to you and vise versa. Its not about whether God is factual or that it can be proven. Its whether having faith in God has a purpose either way.

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Indeed, there are plenty of culturally or otherwise "logical" reasons for faith in god, but I'm only talking about the logical interpretation of evidence to support the existence of this claimed entity.

I don't mean to put anybody down here, but to me "faith" seems like an insult to the human intellect. Somehow we attach possitive reinforcement to this "faith", or in other words believing not because there is any sound logic in doing so, but simply because there are moral and spiritual rewards in having it. Essentially we are told that unquestioningly believing god exists, will have you reap rewards and a closer bond to god. But it's horribly circular logic of "does god exist? if you believe he does then he'll reward you. Therefore god exists". Faith is, in essence, conditioning the human mind to put desire/emotion before reasoning.

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Originally Posted by slipknotpsycho

how come alot of atheists and agnostics can admit their speculations about god may be wrong, but christians, and other people who believe in god, can't admit they may be wrong?

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Because the Church will have you believe that if you were to ever question your faith, you've been tempted by Satan OMG OMG!!!!11!1. That, and they've been "forced," through concepts of Hell and damnation, to act and think a certain way before they're old enough to even think for themselves (Jesus Camp comes to mind CLick me).
I'm an atheist (by default), but I'd be more than happy to convert to any religion that could prove to me that they ideals are true.

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Originally Posted by MegaOctane12

Totaly disagree man, I'm no theologian, but I know that countrys like Africa for example, and the majority of its states adopted Christianity, so that pretty much flattens the blood ties argument.

.

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i ment blood as in death
further more I believe that Christianity has spread more because it is such an appealing religion

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Originally Posted by mrdevious

Essentially we are told that unquestioningly believing god exists, will have you reap rewards and a closer bond to god. But it's horribly circular logic of "does god exist? if you believe he does then he'll reward you. Therefore god exists". Faith is, in essence, conditioning the human mind to put desire/emotion before reasoning.

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I like. There are some good arguments, just only philosophers know them. So itâ??s not to say anyone justifies there beliefs with them.




A small thought experiment. (donâ??t want to discuss it on the thread though)

Think about the best thing that could happen when you die.
Think about the simplest way the universe was created.
Now think about the best way to control a big populationâ?¦

Hmmm

If you doubt, then you haven't found evidence. On an earthly level, I would agree that one must admit the possibility for error. But you can apply that to anything and it won't prove anything. So we're back to faith. To me, faith is invisible substance. Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean I don't have proof of him. I am the substance. But if you don't believe me, that's your problem. So just as the christian is to admit that he could be wrong, the unbeliever should consider the christian point of view. The visible things in this world are all for teachings of the unseen world. It will always come down to faith.

Like the body, we need to feed the soul daily. :pimp:

faith is an absolute!!!
a TRUE believer can have no doubts, it's the nature of the beast. be they christian, moslem, buddhist, or atheist; if they are committed then doubt is impossible. if doubt exists then they are only wanna-be's or seekers or, worst of all, frauds.

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/

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further more I believe that Christianity has spread more because it is such an appealing religion

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Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

no that idiot should have been committed

it has been said that all prayers are answered but sometimes the answer is "no"

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/



Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

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i ment appealing as in. It presents wonderful answers to difficult questions. IE death.

People want to believe that happends

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

This idiot was committed, delusions. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/11/rzsl_week_4/



Christianity spread because "God's will" was imposed forcefully by the Church.

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i guess that kinda proves god dosn't exist. dosn't it?

more so, if god wanted people to be christians so bad that he would send them to hell if they werenâ??t. why dosn't he just show everyone that he exists. it wouldn't be hard.

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Originally Posted by harris7

i ment appealing as in. It presents wonderful answers to difficult questions. IE death.

People want to believe that happends

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are you sure you didn't mean a peeling. as in a thin, useless rind hiding the fruit within

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i ment appealing as in. It presents wonderful answers to difficult questions. IE death.

People want to believe that happends

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Agreed, nothing scares me more than death, and it is very comforting knowing that somebody out there actually cares.

Quick question to the Christians. Were we "alive" before we were born? In other words, did God give us a chance to choose life?

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

Quick question to the Christians. Were we "alive" before we were born? In other words, did God give us a chance to choose life?

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How could anyone possibly answer that question? All we know is the life we have here. The after isn't really important, imo...


Much Love,

Does it say anything about it in the bible? I'm curious because I had a really trippy dream about it.

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Originally Posted by Lucifuge

Does it say anything about it in the bible? I'm curious because I had a really trippy dream about it.

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Not that I recall, Lucifuge... To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to look for something like that, lol! I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think the Bible talks about us choosing to be born...


Much Love,

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Originally Posted by UnitedWeFall

There is a law of free will which God created. It means each human gets to make choices. If he just showed us, then it'd break that law.



Our souls have lived many lives before. And our souls will keep coming into Human bodies until we "pass" the "test", or so to speak.

The test being that our souls need to be enlightened enough to live with God in the spiritual realm. And if the soul is not, it will be born into a different body to try again.

However, once the soul has reached a certain level, it gets a choice. The choice being to ascend into the spiritual realm forever, or to come back and help the humans out a bit.

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no-where is this found in the bible, what scriptures are you getting this from?

so, jesus came down and told you all of this? or you are just going by something someone else has told you?

even if i did believe in christianity, i doubt i would seek spiritual enlightment on a web page.... i'm pretty sure i'd turn to something a little more widespread and common... so yeah.. anyways i'll go with the latter, you're just going by what someone else told you..